[Habriant40]

Had you checked the pedal sensor since it commands the TB at some point. Like sending an intermittent signal for some reason. Checking the output signal to see how it behave during operation.

I have unplugged the pedal sensor and observed new (can't remember which) DTC codes for pedal sensor. But the symtpoms in the video still happened even with the sensor unplugged.
Also, the car hasn't reacted to pedal inputs in over a month now. Its something during the TB startup, and it apparently doesn't need the pedal to decide to clock out permanently.

How about the wire inside the pigtai at either end (PCM and TB). Have you unpinned both sides and inspected for a bad connection there? Obviously it passes the continuity test with the meter but that doesn't send any amperage down the circuit.

Many times yes. All have nominal 0.2 ohm resistance. All of the wires are brand new. the connector is brand new. nothing is crossed or frayed between TB and PCM.

 

[TurboGT]

I have unplugged the pedal sensor and observed new (can't remember which) DTC codes for pedal sensor. But the symtpoms in the video still happened even with the sensor unplugged.
Also, the car hasn't reacted to pedal inputs in over a month now. Its something during the TB startup, and it apparently doesn't need the pedal to decide to clock out permanently.


Many times yes. All have nominal 0.2 ohm resistance. All of the wires are brand new. the connector is brand new. nothing is crossed or frayed between TB and PCM.

When you backprobe pin 6 with everything plugged in and the circuit energized, what does it read?


Really the only thing left as a possibility is terminal tension or carbon tracking.

You've tried 2 throttle bodies. 2 PCMs. I can't see what else is left!

 

[SSgtjrobertson]

Post #27 last pic speaks about the TPPC process. In the video you linked it shows that the throttle blade fails to establish the WOT hardtop and begins to shutter. The PCM attempts a retry with the same outcome.

Forgive me if I've already asked this but have you tried a different throttle body?

 

[STallion18]

I have my stock TB, It was working when I pulled it out to be replaced for the 2.3 one, less than 3k miles, do you want to try it?

 

[SSgtjrobertson]

On today's episode of "Answers to things no one asked" or better known as "**** normal people never ****ing do to perfectly good parts"

I present you the inner workings of a factory 2.0 ecoboost throttle body:

---

Just incase you're interested 😉

 

[Habriant40]

On today's episode of "Answers to things no one asked" or better known as "**** normal people never ****ing do to perfectly good parts"

I present you the inner workings of a factory 2.0 ecoboost throttle body:

Just incase you're interested 😉

Thank you for doing this, I have already done this myself.

I have my stock TB, It was working when I pulled it out to be replaced for the 2.3 one, less than 3k miles, do you want to try it?

I have my stock one too back in PA. Need to have dad ship it down to FL. But I don't think it will change anything.

• I have the 2.3L throttle body that was in the car when these problems started happening. (brake caliper silicone assume to be dielectric. Used to pack. melted. maybe caused current situation. maybe didn't)
• I have a 2.5L duratec throttle body (should not work at all, however I tried it in the car a long while ago and it does take throttle inputs. Its only after like 2-3 minutes of driving on it the motor decides it doesn't like the TPS protocol and goes into limp mode). 2020 reference. Just using it as test component.
• I have a brand new 2.3L throttle body that I have never cracked open and will not.

all 3 do the same thing, though I'm done putting the screwed up 2.3L throttle body in.

I also have two PCM's. the factory one for my car. And a mistakenly purchased 2013 Focus SEL PCM. The turbocharged PCM's are far more expensive.
I tried to have the 2013 SEL PCM VIN paired. didn't change throttle problem. I had the factory PCM re VIN paired to the car. That all said.

• Factory PCM does the same thing
• 2013 SEL PCM does the same thing for the throttle, though the VIN mismatch won't let the engine crank. But it still does the same stupid thing for the throttle check when you open the door / push ignition w/o clutch.

All of the wiring from PCM to TB is absolutely fine. Its somewhere else.

Since OP said his problem went away when he put the correct sensors on the FRP and MAP respectively (he had his swapped), I put the harness back in the car again. I plugged in every single connector (thinking that having a few disconnected may have been messing up the common (-) voltage. ) And tried again. Of course, the problem is still there, but it does its fluttering tighter:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[Habriant40]

Does anyone think the dealership would be able to fix this problem? ID hand over $$$$ to make this go away. I need my car back. I'm sick of biking everywhere. And I don't have time to do this anymore. Work and grad school have taken over. No car for month(s) is brutal.

 

[Shadow]

Does anyone think the dealership would be able to fix this problem? ID hand over $$$$ to make this go away. I need my car back. I'm sick of biking everywhere. And I don't have time to do this anymore. Work and grad school have taken over. No car for month(s) is brutal.

I'm sure they could eventually will definitely be $$$$ though.

 

[Habriant40]

Story reminder: This happened in the middle of the highway a few days after installing new injectors. I pulled over and turned it off. Waited a few seconds. Turned it back on, problem gone, and made it to my destination.
Leaving destination, I turned it on. Drove 1/8th mile down the road and it happened again. Took intake manifold off, cleaned connectors and everything, visually watched the TB work correctly from dash (like my videos). Put it back together to drive, and it didn't work and hasn't since.

Everything between the PCM and TB has been freshly done and tested. multiple PCM's have been tried. Multiple TB's have been tried.

What gives the PCM the voltage to operate this thing?
@SSgtjrobertson Is there a 5v source going into the PCM that it uses for the TPS1/TPS2 circuit? Really thinking its something upstream.

 

[TurboGT]

Have dad ship the stock throttle body down. The fact that something changes with the fusion throttle body is enough to raise my eyebrows.

 

[Habriant40]

Have dad ship the stock throttle body down. The fact that something changes with the fusion throttle body is enough to raise my eyebrows.

Wait sorry, nothing changes with fusion throttle Body. All 3 do the same thing.

I was citing something from 2020 when I tried out the 2.5L TB for fun. I noted that it worked for a few minutes and did move the throttle blade properly before the PCM decided it didn't like it. Just using this to say, the 2.5L throttle body is a somewhat valid test point. Or the fact that its doing the same thing as the brand new TB supports that the brand new TB is fine.

 

[Shadow]

@Habriant40 EBAY PCM $160

 

[TurboGT]

@Habriant40 EBAY PCM $160

He already tried another pcm. That's why this is so perplexing

 

[Shadow]

He already tried another pcm. That's why this is so perplexing

Yep i was just linking a correct part number PCM instead of the one he bought.

 

[SSgtjrobertson]

Also voltage reference from the PCM.
VREF + / SIGRTN - should show 5 VDC for as close as possible.

TP1 & TP2 are a high/low combo.
This means on sensor will sweep from low to high and the other from high to low.

I'm not sure which is which so this is just an example for explanation and not actual measurements.

Closed throttle (never completely closed)
Sensor 1 = .5 VDC
Sensor 2 = 4.5 VDC

100% throttle
Sensor 1 = 4.5 VDC
Sensor 2 = .5 VDC

As the throttles position changes so does the output of each Sensor relative to that change.

So the system is calibrated to set a voltage value based and the angle of the throttle shaft. It uses two sensors as a safety. If two sensors do not reflect the expected out back to the PCM then it will trigger a DTC/CEL.

The APP (accelerator pedal position) sensors are laid out exactly like this as well.

Both just use a variable resistor to change the 5 VDC VREF signal back to the PCM.

Mechanical failures can cause it to appear as a sensor failure as well. (Sticking or binding)

So if you get a code for high or low voltage then remember you're troubleshooting two (2) separate sensors that happen to share a power and ground source, but each have their own outputs.

J

So if we're work on the theory that the B circuit is showing too high voltage (higher than the expected threshold) then it's either a failure of a hard part or wire related (short to voltage).

Stupid question but have you tried a manual KAM reset? (Disconnecting both the positive and negative battery cables and shorting them together for 40-50 seconds)

 

[STallion18]

Go back and review from the injectors forward everything that was touched. Everything you removed or moved and put back again.

 

[Habriant40]

So if we're work on the theory that the B circuit is showing too high voltage (higher than the expected threshold) then it's either a failure of a hard part or wire related (short to voltage).

Stupid question but have you tried a manual KAM reset? (Disconnecting both the positive and negative battery cables and shorting them together for 40-50 seconds)

this tread is full of 'stupid questions' hahaha. Yes I have performed several KAM resets

Go back and review from the injectors forward everything that was touched. Everything you removed or moved and put back again.

Yes I have done this. I haven't put a DMM on every single harness wire bc of time sake, but everything relevant I have resistance tested.
I have visually inspected the entire harness several times over. If the sheath looked even remotely bad I'd pull it off, inspect and redo.

 

[Habriant40]

Last post of today. I have other deadlines.

I conducted a test with a DMM. I have the male side for the 6 pin DWB connector. I collected some numbers with the black lead of the DMM on the negative battery pole of the car. The red lead is then connected to each of the 6 pins, one at a time (white alligator clip in picture). I took several samples to verify these values. I made sure none of the bare wires were contacting anything when it wasn't their turn to test.

battery poles: 12.47v

Pin 1 (TACM+).....: 12.78v - OL resistance
Pin 2 (TACM-)......: 0.038v - 1.31 kohm
Pin 3 (TP1)...........: 0.045v - 0.79 Mohm
Pin 4 (ETCRTN)....: 0.011v. - 39.0 ohm
pin 5 (ETCREF)....: 5.039v - OL resistance
Pin 6 (TP2)...........: 4.815v - OL resistance

Also, during startup, Pin 1 goes to 12.78v and stays there.
Pin 2 briefly spikes to about 5v and then returns to zero (presumably once the TB has failed the test, which it only tries once without seeing sensor A circuit).

The OL resistances are posted for posterity but don't necessarily mean much since this test was taken using the battery (-) pole as common.

I'm very grateful for all of your help.
Hoping to spark some ideas with this. If anyone else has anything they'd like to see from the DMM just ask and I'll post results for whatever test you recommend.

 

[Shadow]

Pin 6 (TP2) 4.815 is overvoltage limit of 4.750. this sensor is available in accesstuner what you do with it is at your own risk.

 

[SSgtjrobertson]

Last post of today. I have other deadlines.

I conducted a test with a DMM. I have the male side for the 6 pin DWB connector. I collected some numbers with the black lead of the DMM on the negative battery pole of the car. The red lead is then connected to each of the 6 pins, one at a time (white alligator clip in picture). I took several samples to verify these values. I made sure none of the bare wires were contacting anything when it wasn't their turn to test.

View attachment 404498

battery poles: 12.47v

Pin 1 (TACM+).....: 12.78v - OL resistance
Pin 2 (TACM-)......: 0.038v - 1.31 kohm
Pin 3 (TP1)...........: 0.045v - 0.79 Mohm
Pin 4 (ETCRTN)....: 0.011v. - 39.0 ohm
pin 5 (ETCREF)....: 5.039v - OL resistance
Pin 6 (TP2)...........: 4.815v - OL resistance

Also, during startup, Pin 1 goes to 12.78v and stays there.
Pin 2 briefly spikes to about 5v and then returns to zero (presumably once the TB has failed the test, which it only tries once without seeing sensor A circuit).

The OL resistances are posted for posterity but don't necessarily mean much since this test was taken using the battery (-) pole as common.

I'm very grateful for all of your help.
Hoping to spark some ideas with this. If anyone else has anything they'd like to see from the DMM just ask and I'll post results for whatever test you recommend.

Pins 1 & 2 need to be removed from this equation. The motor is functioning properly. In fact it may even be exceeding the 80+% threshold (in video it appears to bouncing off the hardstop.

This leaves 3,4,5 & 6.
Pin 5 VREF is the 5 VDC supply (+)
Pin 4 SIGRTN is the -5 VDC supply (-)

Pins 3 & 6 are the TP1 & 2 output to the PCM.

Do not check these voltages against battery terminals! PCM damage can occur faster that you can remove the meter leads. When dealing with sensors it's the safest practice to treat SIGRTN as a clean dedicated ground for that sensor.

DMM set to volts DC
Red lead to Pin 5 (+)
Black lead to Pin 4 (-)
= voltage available to sensor
-----
Red lead to Pin 3 (TP1 output)
Black lead to Pin 4 (-)
= Throttle blade at rest TPS output (high or low?)

-----
Red lead to Pin 6 (TP2 output)
Black lead to Pin 4 (-)
= Throttle blade at rest TPS output (high or low?)
----

If possible to back probe when Throttle body is attempting to sweep monitoring the Pin 3 & 6 output to see if either exceed the Pin 4 & 5 VREF output.

I'm not certain and am currently unable to get to my AP but these two outputs may or may not be individuals available.

You can see ETC in percentage 20% = closed & around 84% = WOT.