[TurboGT]

Stupid question, but I have to ask. Are you checking continuity between wires as well? Or continuity to B+ or ground?

 

[SSgtjrobertson]

Also voltage reference from the PCM.
VREF + / SIGRTN - should show 5 VDC for as close as possible.

TP1 & TP2 are a high/low combo.
This means on sensor will sweep from low to high and the other from high to low.

I'm not sure which is which so this is just an example for explanation and not actual measurements.

Closed throttle (never completely closed)
Sensor 1 = .5 VDC
Sensor 2 = 4.5 VDC

100% throttle
Sensor 1 = 4.5 VDC
Sensor 2 = .5 VDC

As the throttles position changes so does the output of each Sensor relative to that change.

So the system is calibrated to set a voltage value based and the angle of the throttle shaft. It uses two sensors as a safety. If two sensors do not reflect the expected out back to the PCM then it will trigger a DTC/CEL.

The APP (accelerator pedal position) sensors are laid out exactly like this as well.

Both just use a variable resistor to change the 5 VDC VREF signal back to the PCM.

Mechanical failures can cause it to appear as a sensor failure as well. (Sticking or binding)

So if you get a code for high or low voltage then remember you're troubleshooting two (2) separate sensors that happen to share a power and ground source, but each have their own outputs.

J

 

[Habriant40]

Reading through other posts, I just found out about this...

So my MEGA 1 fuse was blown... since I've had the car down it has occasionally thrown a DTC for issues with the power steering control. I haven't given it much mind since I've unplugged the PCM tons and haven't drove the car. Figured it may have just been thrown somewhere in all the maintenance.

but could this possibly have anything to do with the TB issues I have? It doesn't seem like anything on the PCM is fused here. The TB circuit is contained in the PCM loop.

 

[Habriant40]

Stupid question, but I have to ask. Are you checking continuity between wires as well? Or continuity to B+ or ground?

I was checking continuity of the 6 wires running from PCM to TB. just straight lengths of wire.

 

[Habriant40]

additional info:
Using this picture just for refference as to what each of the 6 wires does,

I have soldered completely new pieces of wire to the PCM side of the harness for #1 TACM+ and #2 TACM- for testing purposes..

checking voltage of TACM+ wire from PCM to negative battery terminal. Upon ignition press, there is a steady jump from 0v to ≈12v upon ignition press. it stays at 12v.

checking voltage of TACM- wire from PCM to negative battery terminal. Upon ignition press, there is a spike from 0v to 4.5v during TB sensing, then a return to 0v after it fails the test.

DMM wires: red is on tested PCM output wire, black is on negative battery terminal for both tests here. Which means the voltages are against each other. - doesn't seem right.

 

[TurboGT]

So. Im trying not to think about this too hard. But the voltage on the TACM- may be from the throttle being pulled closed on the sweep. (Throttle bodies are spring-biased to high idle when total electronic failure has occurred). So in order for your throttle body to maintain idle it actually has to run the motor backwards to close the throttle body more against spring tension.

I'm explaining that to say initially the 4.5v on the ground wire jumped out at me, unless that's just from the reverse polarity of it running the TB closed.


If I were you, I'd solder jumpers on the additional four wires as well. It may still fault due to a position error. These are sensor circuit codes, not motor circuit codes.

 

[SSgtjrobertson]

So. Im trying not to think about this too hard. But the voltage on the TACM- may be from the throttle being pulled closed on the sweep. (Throttle bodies are spring-biased to high idle when total electronic failure has occurred). So in order for your throttle body to maintain idle it actually has to run the motor backwards to close the throttle body more against spring tension.

I'm explaining that to say initially the 4.5v on the ground wire jumped out at me, unless that's just from the reverse polarity of it running the TB closed.


If I were you, I'd solder jumpers on the additional four wires as well. It may still fault due to a position error. These are sensor circuit codes, not motor circuit codes.

I can't leave this place for one day...

 

[TurboGT]

Lol. What part didn't you agree with?

 

[SSgtjrobertson]

Lol. What part didn't you agree with?

Nothing just thought it was relevant information for the topic at hand.... and I'm BORED!

 

[TurboGT]

Nothing just thought it was relevant information for the topic at hand.... and I'm BORED!

Ahhhh. Lol. Do they serve bourbon in hospitals?

 

[ddfred]

I can't leave this place for one day...
View attachment 403420 View attachment 403421 View attachment 403422

What made you think that you could??? Besides, you're going to need something to keep you sane (somewhat) until you are able to get out and about. Enjoy!

 

[SSgtjrobertson]

Tylenol is the strongest thing I'm currently talking. And I plan on keeping it that way.

 

[Habriant40]

Nothing just thought it was relevant information for the topic at hand.... and I'm BORED!

certainly is. Thanks
Wishing you a speedy recovery!

 

[Habriant40]

So. Im trying not to think about this too hard. But the voltage on the TACM- may be from the throttle being pulled closed on the sweep. (Throttle bodies are spring-biased to high idle when total electronic failure has occurred). So in order for your throttle body to maintain idle it actually has to run the motor backwards to close the throttle body more against spring tension.

I'm explaining that to say initially the 4.5v on the ground wire jumped out at me, unless that's just from the reverse polarity of it running the TB closed.


If I were you, I'd solder jumpers on the additional four wires as well. It may still fault due to a position error. These are sensor circuit codes, not motor circuit codes.

I originally thought the same thing about the reverse polarity - that it is trying to run hard closed first then full open. But it seems very shuddery for the <1 second that it tries. This could just be its feedback loop dealing with no sensor data.

The wires all have good continuity though. IDK what putting a jumper wire in would do besides allow me to take measurements of the TPS wires easily.. Its why I stopped at the TACM+ and TACM- wires, it felt stilly.

 

[TurboGT]

I originally thought the same thing about the reverse polarity - that it is trying to run hard closed first then full open. But it seems very shuddery for the <1 second that it tries. This could just be its feedback loop dealing with no sensor data.

The wires all have good continuity though. IDK what putting a jumper wire in would do besides allow me to take measurements of the TPS wires easily.. Its why I stopped at the TACM+ and TACM- wires, it felt stilly.

Those wires can be intact while also being shorted to ground, shorted to b+, shorted to 5v, or shorted to each other. Don't overlook continuity to other sources as an issue

 

[Habriant40]

car is still in garage. Very frustrating. Thinking to buy a beater car to get around....

I have now redone every single wire of the 6 that go to the throttle body. From the PCM disconnect to the TB pigtail. Full new lengths, and even got a new pigtail. Nothing works.
I have wire brushed and cleaned every ground.
I have also Redone the 2013-2014 wiring harness splice recalls very thoroughly.
I've had the engine harness out of the car for full visual inspection several times - undone almost all of the tape on it. Everything is testing good for continuity (as usual).

Still doing this:

.

After cleaning the grounds and charging the battery, it only did what it was doing before but stronger,.

 

[SSgtjrobertson]

I keep coming back to the blown fuse. Something isn't sitting right about that. Did you isolate the cause?

 

[Habriant40]

I keep coming back to the blown fuse. Something isn't sitting right about that. Did you isolate the cause?

Continuity checked all of the fuses that seemed relevant in BJB.. Also checked the Mega fuses. all good

Maybe a clue: the DTC's say circuit B. I snipped the wire to TPS2 (pin 6 on DWB connector) and nothing changed about the operation or error codes at all.
I snipped the wire to TPS1, and it only tried the startup check once (no fluttering). and then it threw additional P0122 code (circuit A). which makes sense. This is what lead me to redo all of the wires.

I still have the same two DTC codes as the OP.
P0223 - Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch B circuit High
P2111 - Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) System Stuck Open

The BJB connector was dirty, but I've cleaned it with QD cleaner. I've also inspected the wires in between and from the regions I could pull back and inspect, they looked good.
Going to start testing the connections from BJB to PCM.

OP just replied to me in DM and told me it was simply him switching the FRP sensor and the MAP sensor plugs.... I'll give it a try when I get the harness back in the car.

 

[STallion18]

Had you checked the pedal sensor since it commands the TB at some point. Like sending an intermittent signal for some reason. Checking the output signal to see how it behave during operation.

 

[TurboGT]

How about the wire inside the pigtai at either end (PCM and TB). Have you unpinned both sides and inspected for a bad connection there? Obviously it passes the continuity test with the meter but that doesn't send any amperage down the circuit.