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My buddy with a '14 SE auto has gone through 2 sets of dual clutch plates (one brand new, one "used"). He has less than 10k miles
Cool story, bro.
I drove a '13 SE rental in Seattle last November. That thing was slipping and grinding like mad going into second and third. It almost worked better if I floored it rather than easy to moderate gas.
Dkalch65 wasn't talking about hp he was talking about reliability

@Stu675
 
Dkalch65 wasn't talking about hp he was talking about reliability

@Stu675
I know what he is talking about. Ford's dual clutch still has a ways to go, but it vastly improved over their first attempt in the Focus and complaints have dropped tenfold over what they were in the first gen of this new body style. Of course there are going to be failures, welcome to making a product.

For the rental car, personally I bet that 13 had never had the recall done and it was passed being repairable.
 
My point was you are calling auto/cvt owners non-enthusiasts because of their transmission choice. People can still be enthusiasts even if they don't put themselves on a manual trans pedestal like yourself.
No pedestal here. You may have confused me speaking about enthusiast cars with enthusiast owners. These WRX CVT's (the one I brought up as a point to the comment) are not for enthusiasts, aka non-enthusiast cars. Enthusiasts may still drive them, but eh... that wasn't really the point I was making.
 
No pedestal here. You may have confused me speaking about enthusiast cars with enthusiast owners. These WRX CVT's (the one I brought up as a point to the comment) are not for enthusiasts, aka non-enthusiast cars. Enthusiasts may still drive them, but eh... that wasn't really the point I was making.
So if I'm understanding this right, cars with non "traditional" manual transmissions are not cars for enthusiasts? My PDK 911 is 100x more "enthusiast's / driver's car" than my ST will ever be. Don't forget all the high end cars (GTRs, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porsches, etc) that no longer even come in a manual transmission.

The same argument can be made to our pathetic 4 cyl engine in the ST. I know lots and lotssss of people who will never call it a sports / enthusiast's car because it's not rocking a 400hp V8 in it and they'll always see it as a grocery getting 4 banger for soccer dads.

This debate has been raged on every forum imaginable. IT'S ALL PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Calling someone / a car "non enthusiasts" because it's not a "true" manual transmission just makes you a ****.


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My point was you are calling auto/cvt owners non-enthusiasts because of their transmission choice. People can still be enthusiasts even if they don't put themselves on a manual trans pedestal like yourself.
CVT transmissions really are pointless in performance cars still. They don't have the durability to handle track stresses.

DCT boxes are a different matter.
 
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I know what he is talking about. Ford's dual clutch still has a ways to go, but it vastly improved over their first attempt in the Focus and complaints have dropped tenfold over what they were in the first gen of this new body style. Of course there are going to be failures, welcome to making a product.

For the rental car, personally I bet that 13 had never had the recall done and it was passed being repairable.
I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
 
Yeah somewhere this got off track and DCT's became the topic, not automatics. They are not the same thing. CVT's to me quality as an automatic, just for reference. I see a lot of people using the strawman of "X supercar must not be Y because of DCT", but we're not talking about DCT's being non-sporting.
 
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I drove a '13 SE rental in Seattle last November. That thing was slipping and grinding like mad going into second and third. It almost worked better if I floored it rather than easy to moderate gas.
I'm confused. It's a rental. Why we're you not flooring it to begin with? Rental cars are the fastest cars in the world.

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I'm confused. It's a rental. Why we're you not flooring it to begin with? Rental cars are the fastest cars in the world.

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The only thing one needs to be an enthusiast is to be enthusiastic about driving.
You can be a driving enthusiast without a car.

But an enthusiasts car should provide the things that enthusiasts look for in performance cars. With current technology today, CVT's don't provide that. Adding power to those things, or extended high load performance will wreck them quickly.

Traditional hydraulic planetary gear Automatics are making headways into Circuit racing with the mainstream usage of electronic throttle blades that allow rev-matched downshifting of the transmission. A notable weak point. They also do not do well with extended loads as the fluid heats up FAST. And any mods you do to increase torque handling usually result in increased heat output. So you have to have a VERY good cooling system or the fluid will break down and the clutch packs and steals will glaze. Drag racing where stalled auto's are used the most simply doesn't generate near the load Road Racing does.

Straight up manual transmissions are perfect for road racing and performance driving with less cost. The clutch can wear out, but the gears and synchro's themselves don't generate that much heat compared to the traditional automatic. Still, for endurance racing a cooler is useful.

Electronic SCT and DCT boxes are more performance oriented, but more expensive to maintain and fix. This is basically a computer taking away the control of the clutch, and shift lever. They are now actuated by hydraulics. So shift timing can be much more precise and faster. This is at its heart the same method mechanical design as a regular old H-pattern.
 
^^^. Am assuming you mean "can't" not can. But though I was being tongue and cheek, I'm not sure it's written anywhere you have to even have a car. When I was 15 and had a Lamborghini poster on my wall I definatly felt I was an enthusiast. Car or no car. There are model-t enthusiasts. By most of the definitions I see posted these cars wouldn't qualify the person as an enthusiast.
 
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