[EnchinsuOcha]

Got my NGKs gapped to 0.029 inches last night. Ready to go in this weekend.

 

[Kevin]

Where the logs on an Accessport V1.x map or the new V2.0 map? The V2.0 map notes included the following
Fixed a bug that caused the Catalyst Temperature to read inaccurately high

Not ready to lose my tunes from FSW. Probably won't upgrade until I get a crackpipe from Ollie.

Since all the tunes were done around the same time I'm willing to bet that even with v2.0 map the stock plugs are still going to record higher temps.

 

[Cnstman]

Not ready to lose my tunes from FSW. Probably won't upgrade until I get a crackpipe from Ollie.

Since all the tunes were done around the same time I'm willing to bet that even with v2.0 map the stock plugs are still going to record higher temps.

True, just making sure one test was not on V1.x, and the 2nd on v2.0.

 

[Kevin]

To make it easier to follow and critique I retitled the logs and put it all in one post. This comparison between factory LTR6 plugs the showed a measured gap of.028 and NGK LTR7 gapped to .028. The comparison was completed on the same tank of fuel, same ambient temp, same road, and same version of AP firmware over three different days.

Cobb stage 2 factory plug:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x2oomynv2vso41c/Cobbstage2factoryplug1.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uwhsafp3ywqa6de/Cobbstage2factoryplug2.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/utrlq2dbn88cevi/Cobbstage2factoryplug3.csv

Cobb stage 2 LTR7IX-11

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xpdmzlj4f4c9xk3/Cobbstage2LTR7IX-11plug1.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0e0a14zvf06jnst/Cobbstage2LTR7IX-11plug2.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0e0a14zvf06jnst/Cobbstage2LTR7IX-11plug2.csv

FSW stage 2 LTR7IX-11

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bixtgtxfboo2whn/FSWstage2LTR7IX-11plug1.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u07fm71t6ito6bu/FSWstage2LTR7IX-11plug2.csv

 

[gottligm06]

Has anyone asked yet how going to 1 step colder plugs might be affected by this ridiculous cold weather we have been having?
Not sure if this would even make a difference b/c like it has been previously mentioned, the plug temperature is not really the same thing as combustion temperature.

In case anyone is wondering about this...I did some more research and found this one NGK's website:

As the air temperature or humidity decreases, the air density increases, requiring a richer air-fuel mixture. If the air-fuel mixture is not properly richened, and the mixture is too lean, higher cylinder pressures / temperatures, knocking, and the subsequent increase in the spark plug tip temperatures can result.
As the air temperature or humidity increases, the air density decreases, requiring a leaner air-fuel mixture. If the air-fuel mixture is too rich, decreased performance and/or carbon fouling can result.

Pretty interesting. But it actually has the opposite affect as I was expecting. So in reality using the colder plugs during winter would actually be even more benefit to the engine.

 

[EdgeAutosport.com]

here is a thread I did a little while ago.

A Little Spark Plug Tech

Hopefully it can answer some of your questions.

 

[sehenry29]

Got my NGKs gapped to 0.029 inches last night. Ready to go in this weekend.

How hard are they to gap? Just got mine ordered last night for edge autosport.

 

[EnchinsuOcha]

How hard are they to gap? Just got mine ordered last night for edge autosport.

With the right tools, very easy. This tool i used solely to bend the ground electrode. The wire gauges are useless because there are only 6 options. This is the feeler gauge I used to get the right gap. You can swap around the blades to whatever you want down to the thousandth (.001) of an inch.

 

[Kevin]

Here's some more logs with the FSW stage 2 tune and the LTR7IX-11 plugs. This time I included Ignition correction for cylinders 1-4. It seems like a lot of variation?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vbax9vpsl344l0c/fsw2.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qd6czi4ywie04zs/fsw3.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/92k9xbij5f9pq3a/fsw4.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/njlid6wkaeu9ejq/fsw5.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/eks47g2tk1sq8gv/fsw6.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t2x8agshds3hd3e/fsw7.csv

 

[Alex@Stratified]

Here's some more logs with the FSW stage 2 tune and the LTR7IX-11 plugs. This time I included Ignition correction for cylinders 1-4. It seems like a lot of variation?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2x1pg5f380yflml/fsw2.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xeysyohga3kjquj/fsw3.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/npu93jx5imr6z9x/fsw4.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/18ar6sy8z5mev8g/fsw5.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l484qk0eqiw6di7/fsw6.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6wa9qj6ee183s6o/fsw7.csv

There is no difference in the logs between the NGK and OEM plugs. Colder plugs prevent pre-ignition and not detonation. The knock sensor only picks up detonation. If the car is running smoothly with no issues the colder plugs are a good purchase and some insurance against pre-ignition.

Cylinder 4 is unhappy in a couple of these logs as it looks to be the noisiest cylinder. There is a relationship between charge temperatures and the correction values. What is probably happening is that as the charge temperatures get into the 70s consistently cyl 4 starts to knock first.

I suggest taking more heatsoaked logs by doing a multi gear pull 2-3-4 taking each gear to redline.

 

[Kevin]

For comparison here are some logs with Cobb stage 2 and the ltr7 plugs ign corr 1-4. Less timing is being pulled but it also has less boost. logs 1 and 3 show timing advancing, log 2 has timing being pulled -1.38, log for shows -.5. I will take your advise and log some 2-3-4 pulls soon. Thanks again for reviewing those logs.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6sc068f3mbnxy5j/cobb2ltr7-1.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qoiz4m9m90qpo8a/cobb2ltr7-2.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rgcffauv2e4ijg6/cobb2ltr7-3.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3kszldyfhyrgpmr/cobb2ltr7-4.csv

 

[Alex@Stratified]

For comparison here are some logs with Cobb stage 2 and the ltr7 plugs. Less timing is being pulled but it also has less boost. logs 1 and 3 show timing advancing, log 2 has timing being pulled -1.38, log for shows -.5 I will take your advise and log some 2-3-4 pulls soon. Thanks again for reviewing those logs.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vhwaj1sm0x0jnoz/cobb2ltr7-1.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u7jeuy00ycv1ef0/cobb2ltr7-2.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kom36j3kojmphny/cobb2ltr7-3.csv
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rewlc9atki2pr0b/cobb2ltr7-4.csv

Not a problem and yes the COBB map is a bit less aggressive. Putting the motor under higher temperature load usually reveals if a tune is too aggressive.

 

[gottligm06]

Haha at least you don't drive a Dodge Dart (besides the obvious reasons...)!!

"The Dart—at least 1.4-liter turbo models—uses NGK iridium spark plugs, which retail for $33 each on Mopar’s parts site, but a massive backorder on these plugs meant that we were charged 25 percent extra to get the plugs in posthaste. This pushed the per-plug price to a staggering $43.56. It gets worse—we couldn’t find the plugs from parts suppliers like NAPA or O’Reilly, and even though the plugs are produced by NGK for Mopar, they don’t appear on NGK’s databases. It seems that for now, Chrysler is the sole source for these plugs, and they’re not cheap. Backyard mechanics, take note."
-Car & Driver

 

[Kent]

There is no difference in the logs between the NGK and OEM plugs. Colder plugs prevent pre-ignition and not detonation. The knock sensor only picks up detonation. If the car is running smoothly with no issues the colder plugs are a good purchase and some insurance against pre-ignition.

Cylinder 4 is unhappy in a couple of these logs as it looks to be the noisiest cylinder. There is a relationship between charge temperatures and the correction values. What is probably happening is that as the charge temperatures get into the 70s consistently cyl 4 starts to knock first.

I suggest taking more heatsoaked logs by doing a multi gear pull 2-3-4 taking each gear to redline.

Cyl 4 is like that in my car too. It's always the first to get -1.5,-2.0 correction

 

[Kevin]

not sure why the links quit working but its fixed

 

[Alex@Stratified]

Cyl 4 is like that in my car too. It's always the first to get -1.5,-2.0 correction

On any car you will have one cylinder knock first. Usually due to poorer heat dissipation a flow imbalance and sometimes the location of the knock sensor.

 

[Kevin]

my number 4 cyl went as far as -4 correction with the FSW tune not nearly as bad with the Cobb

 

[Kent]

my number 4 cyl went as far as -4 correction with the FSW tune not nearly as bad with the Cobb

Randy told me his tune was pulling more timing than needed, IIRC. Even the stock tune pulls timing.

 

[Kevin]

I didn't know that. It was weird to me to see it just one cylinder pull that much timing. Still trying to grasp this new found ( to me) information

 

[Alex@Stratified]

Randy told me his tune was pulling more timing than needed, IIRC. Even the stock tune pulls timing.

As long as the knock sensors "detect" knock they will pull timing regardless of the tune installed (unless the tune disables them). Any engine will knock at one point or another but you want to stay away from severe or constant knock.

Knock sensors are just microphones tuned to listen for the signature knock sound around the time the spark plugs fire. They are not foolproof but these days they are quite reliable and are used more and more for adaptive strategies such as on this car.