No one really knows yet. We have a few specifics on it but it is still a prototype that was shown.

 

The only real deference that Subaru likes to market is the symmetrical AWD. This just refers to the engine being mounted longitudinally and the drive shafts are all equal length (hence the symmetrical). The WRX employs a mechanical coupling differential which means that at all times the torque split front:rear is 50:50 unless there's lost traction somewhere and the traction difference in the output shafts causes the differential to lock up and send the wasted torque elsewhere. Changing the drive split like with the DCCD is achieved by placing different preloads on the differential which makes it more or less sensitive to differences in torque. This is a mechanical system, reliable, old technology, cheap, and doesn't involve any electronic management.

The RS' AWD is all electronic clutches that are obviously operated by the computer to manage torque split continuously, real time, and instantaneously adjust on the fly many times per second. This system seems to free up more tunability in how you want the car to behave in certain situations (i.e. the controlled drifting Raj Nair mentioned at the launch event). This system is new technology (for Ford), requires good computing power, good tuning, lots of sensors, is slightly more complicated in its application (but same concept as the Subaru style), and will out adapt a mechanical style all day long.

I wouldn't worry about hardware durability for this application. This system was designed around this car and being engineered to deliver specific driving dynamics for the RS, will be up to the task.

Thinking about how this system works, it leads me to conclude that there is a possibility of this system being very robust for launches (kinda like the Porsche), and not a prayer like it is with Subaru's. Time will tell of course.

 

Im definitely getting an RS at somepoint but i think im gonna have to skip the first year or 2 so I can see how well the this brand new awd tech holds up.

 

Based on a little bit of research into Subaru, I think both systems will have similar performance. You can't call one more or less advanced right now without some benchmarking after the RS is released.

Current WRXs do use a viscous coupling locking differential in the center inside the transaxle case. This splits torque to either 20/80 or 80/20 front/rear depending on which axle has more grip and is done mechanically without the use of electronically controlled clutches. So right there, the Subaru can send 10% more torque to the rear axle. However to my knowledge there is no form of torque-vectoring in the WRX, so torque to the front or rear is split evenly between left and right.

I believe the RS will have the same brake-based torque vectoring at the front axle that we got in the ST. Torque can then be split to a maximum of 30/70 front/back. The rear axle is controlled by a torque vectoring rear drive unit that can send 70% of engine torque to either the left rear or right rear wheel via two clutch packs. All torque splitting is continuously electronically controlled and torque is sent to wherever the computer determines it is needed most. This can be a faster and more predictive system than the WRX's mechanical coupling. I've driven a vehicle with this same AWD system and more power in the past and I loved it immensely.

*I'm not a Subaru fan at all, so if I got any details wrong feel free to correct me.

 

Volvo and audi both have better systems than Subaru and ford with its dynamic torque vectoring will blow the competition away. check this out

 

I saw this earlier today - seems the Ford system may have been developed with Land Rover. This could give some clues into what to expect on the RS though nothing is official yet.

The Ford Focus RS's Clever AWD System Will Spread Elsewhere ? News ?*Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

 

I remember that with the Subaru's viscous center diff if you did e brake turns you would damage the diff. Hopefully Ford engineers engage the rear clutch packs when the e brake is pulled. E brake drifting into my driveway is the only thing that makes a Michigan winter bearable.

 

This season has been just so terrific for handbrake turns in SE Michigan...mhmmm

 

Compared to how? What are the factors to compare the 2?

 

All I know, having owned Jeep SUV's since 1985, is that viscous couplings are very problematic and expensive. Jeep has not used them for many years, as many owners had problems. Their newer systems use gerotors and clutch packs, (Quadra Trac II) or electronic LSD's Command (Quadra Drive).

 

Hmm good point.

Well here's what comes to mind:

1) Track Performance
2) Off road / limited traction performance
3) Durability

I suppose it's difficult to answer 1 without knowing how well the control system does at managing the torque distribution on the track. I guess 2 would depend on the amount of torque that can be moved to each wheel and 3 would seem impossible to know at this point.

 

OK, but you have to take into fact that what looks good on paper, is not the same in reality. So unless you can get the testing data from Sweden, it will have to be a waiting game until the Press Mules start coming out and real world testing can be done on the FoRS.

 

Subaru, much like audi system uses a center differential + front and rear diff.

RS sorta integrates center diff as power take off shaft on long axle side of transmission.

I much prefer mechanical diff, but software n cluch packs allow you do do allot of things including torque vectoring.

ST is excellent car on snow n ice as result of very effective n responsive e-diff.

 

The Hot Hatch War Begins: 2016 Focus RS, WRX STI, Golf R - YouWheel.com - Car News and Review

Comparison from a website/blog I've never heard of so who knows how credible.

 

Hell, im not gonna have my current ST payed off before then.

 

Is interesting the I've been reading every single internet article related to FoRS AWD system. Bloggers had been comparing the Subaru S-awd, VW-Volvo-Mazda(haldex) and Mitsubishi S-AWC and the point is the RS(GKN) have something in common with Mitsubishi S-AWC both use almost the same basics of operation. First both use active diff. control FoRS "haldex style"- LanEVO center diff. both electronically controlled. Second both have electronic controlled rear diff. FoRS(ptu)- LanEVO(Active yaw control" ayc "). Third both use brake based Torque Vectoring. So spec to see the FoRS handle better than a LanEVOX :Rally: Edit: I forgot one more Both can send up to 70% of the torque to the rear wheels(30/70)

 

The big difference between the Focus RS's system and more "true" AWD systems in the Evo/STi is the lack of an actual center differential to maintain a base Front/Rear torque split. In situations of truly low traction available to all four tires (deep snow / loose surfaces) this tends to not be able to keep all four wheels spinning...which in environments such as deep snow is how you keep forward momentum. It also tends to make for very predictable snow hoonability.

In the end its still a front-biased system, which is disappointing to me (but I'm a big AWD/rally fanboy). I'm sure the RS will be fast, probably faster than the STi-at least until Subaru get the updated powerplant in it. But if they're charging STi prices for this thing...it really should have three proper differentials in it. I just can't see myself being ok shelling out STi money without getting the drivetrain bits to go along with it...that's the whole point.

 

I think one of the biggest points missed here is how the computer and algorithm is able to interpret driving conditions and adapt to them. The system could be tuned in a way that it "acts" more like a 3 diff setup.


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According to Automobile magazine:

"During low-stress driving the RS will function as a front-wheel-drive vehicle for efficiency’s sake, but any sense of slip will activate the all-wheel-drive mechanics."

Considering electronically controlled clutches and no center differential, it makes sense that the RS is essentially a front wheel drive vehicle most of the time.

 

When i test drive it believe me im gunna beat the **** out of it! Clutch kicks hand brake high RPM up and downshifts 90 degree flat out turns. Im literally going to try and break it by what your normal track day would do to it. Ill let you guys know. If it feels filmsy at all I will definitely give everyone a heads up!!!

 

While on a test drive, do you plan to push the RS (which will be a totally unfamiliar car to you) to its limits?
Are you some kind of professional driver?

Maybe it is better to let each individual person judge the RS by their own set of criteria.

 

Settle down kids. What people do with their own car off of public roads is their own business. No one is right or wrong for what they legally do with the car they paid for. Whether you enjoy posting a blistering lap time, or you enjoy shredding your tires we all are enjoying the car in our own way and that's what a forum like this is about. Sharing how we enjoy the car. Now can't we all be friends?

 

Thank you man well said!

 

so how many million did ford spend on engineering this awd system? i'm trying to figure out how in the world anyone could come up with a price tag of more than 33k for a base model. if they spent 10mil thats 3000 per RS if they pass the cost directly on.
base ST 23000
+ 3000 engineering
+ 3000 upgrages
+ 1000 optional engine
+ 10,000 for a transfer case, a propeller shaft, a rear and two half shafts
= 40k

I don't think that's even close, can you guys add anything?

 

+6000 - ST3 equivalent package as base.

+? Import costs
+? Manufacturing tooling
+? Exterior upgrades

I don't think its possible to estimate the cost. Ford is going to take a loss on this system and amortize it over multiple models. Knowing how much of that they will try to recoup on the RS is a guessing game. I think the better route is to compare the car to the competition.

 

so, what? you think its going to be more than 45k

 

Sorry I edited and clarified my post. Read again please.

 

You guys think the RS will have trim packages like the ST? I think it's going to be fully loaded and that's it.

 

The only things they have listed as options so far were the Recaro Shell seats (For Europe and ROW minus North America), the choice between standard 19" aluminum alloy wheels, and 1 kg lighter Forged 19" wheels, and the tires, Pilot Super Sport tires or Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires.

The standard seats will likely be the two tone part leather Recaro ST2 style seat with RS specific seat covers with the shell seats optional only in markets that allow for the O.E.M. to supply seats without the air bags.

Otherwise it sounds like one vehicle specification around the world.

 

It is impossible to base the cost of the car on any estimate we as the consumer could put together because the variables are huge. The performance group is planning to add more vehicles to the lineup by 2020 and this is the first with a new AWD system, as stated a lot of this cost will not be recovered with the RS. Also, Ford probably hasn't ever made a profit on the RS . . . we should all thank everyone driving an F150!

Ford said the car will be competitively priced. I still don't expect a base price of anything less than $35k and an all in price probably no more than $38k. I figure the only options will be the wheels/tires (~$1,495), maybe nav (~$750), and maybe some less expensive things such as heated seats/steering wheel, floor mats or cover.

 

http://focusrs.fordpresskits.com/documents/FordFocusRS2015_Overview_EU.pdf

"The high-performance character of the RS is reflected inside the car with heavily-bolstered partial-leather Recaro sports seats as the centrepiece of the cockpit. Signature RS Recaro shell seats, with authentic motorsport microfibre fabric panels, are an option for customers in Europe and Asia."

Edit: too slow hahah

 

[emoji22] Thanks for the clarification. We (NA) only get leftovers from good things of EU and Asia due to inefficient politicians. Us Politicians controlling how car manufacturer sales products.

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I hope the other wheels look a little better.


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Agree, I hope they look like the wheels on the test mules ...

 

Ah well if the base wheels are like those that would be cool. Guess we'll see later.