[RRMotorsports]

Is interesting the I've been reading every single internet article related to FoRS AWD system. Bloggers had been comparing the Subaru S-awd, VW-Volvo-Mazda(haldex) and Mitsubishi S-AWC and the point is the RS(GKN) have something in common with Mitsubishi S-AWC both use almost the same basics of operation. First both use active diff. control FoRS "haldex style"- LanEVO center diff. both electronically controlled. Second both have electronic controlled rear diff. FoRS(ptu)- LanEVO(Active yaw control" ayc "). Third both use brake based Torque Vectoring. So spec to see the FoRS handle better than a LanEVOX :Rally: Edit: I forgot one more Both can send up to 70% of the torque to the rear wheels(30/70)

 

[Spoonman]

Is interesting the I've been reading every single internet article related to FoRS AWD system. Bloggers had been comparing the Subaru S-awd, VW-Volvo-Mazda(haldex) and Mitsubishi S-AWC and the point is the RS(GKN) have something in common with Mitsubishi S-AWC both use almost the same basics of operation. First both use active diff. control FoRS "haldex style"- LanEVO center diff. both electronically controlled. Second both have electronic controlled rear diff. FoRS(ptu)- LanEVO(Active yaw control" ayc "). Third both use brake based Torque Vectoring. So spec to see the FoRS handle better than a LanEVOX :Rally: Edit: I forgot one more Both can send up to 70% of the torque to the rear wheels(30/70)

The big difference between the Focus RS's system and more "true" AWD systems in the Evo/STi is the lack of an actual center differential to maintain a base Front/Rear torque split. In situations of truly low traction available to all four tires (deep snow / loose surfaces) this tends to not be able to keep all four wheels spinning...which in environments such as deep snow is how you keep forward momentum. It also tends to make for very predictable snow hoonability.

In the end its still a front-biased system, which is disappointing to me (but I'm a big AWD/rally fanboy). I'm sure the RS will be fast, probably faster than the STi-at least until Subaru get the updated powerplant in it. But if they're charging STi prices for this thing...it really should have three proper differentials in it. I just can't see myself being ok shelling out STi money without getting the drivetrain bits to go along with it...that's the whole point.

 

[RRMotorsports]

The big difference between the Focus RS's system and more "true" AWD systems in the Evo/STi is the lack of an actual center differential to maintain a base Front/Rear torque split. In situations of truly low traction available to all four tires (deep snow / loose surfaces) this tends to not be able to keep all four wheels spinning...which in environments such as deep snow is how you keep forward momentum. It also tends to make for very predictable snow hoonability.

In the end its still a front-biased system, which is disappointing to me (but I'm a big AWD/rally fanboy). I'm sure the RS will be fast, probably faster than the STi-at least until Subaru get the updated powerplant in it. But if they're charging STi prices for this thing...it really should have three proper differentials in it. I just can't see myself being ok shelling out STi money without getting the drivetrain bits to go along with it...that's the whole point.

Well the LanEVO AWD is front-baised and is still do a really well job in drag, rally, circuit, ect. [emoji2]

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[WiscoST]

I think one of the biggest points missed here is how the computer and algorithm is able to interpret driving conditions and adapt to them. The system could be tuned in a way that it "acts" more like a 3 diff setup.


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[Intercool]

According to Automobile magazine:

"During low-stress driving the RS will function as a front-wheel-drive vehicle for efficiency’s sake, but any sense of slip will activate the all-wheel-drive mechanics."

Considering electronically controlled clutches and no center differential, it makes sense that the RS is essentially a front wheel drive vehicle most of the time.

 

[Intercool]

If you skip the first two years you will likely have to find a used one, since historically the Focus RS has only run for 2 years at a time

I'm not sure that I agree with your reasoning.

The underlying reasons as to why any previous RS had a 2 year life span may not apply to the new one.
Ford has never indicated that the RS would be a limited production car.

It is a whole new ball game.

 

[suss6052]

I have to disagree with your reasoning.

The underlying reasons as to why any previous RS had a 2 year life span may not apply to the new one.
To the best of my knowledge, Ford has never indicated that the RS would be a limited production car.

It is a whole new ball game.

There will be a new MK4 Focus by either 2017 or 2018 at this point. It is due as the MK3 was on sale since 2011, and a 7-8 year product cycle is quite long. So I cannot see the RS lasting for more than 2-3 model years at this point.

At least for the Focus RS if not most of the other RS models going all the way back to the Taunus 15M RS from 1968-1970 a two to three year cycle at the end of the model run has been in effect.

Every RS product has been limited production and there's no reason to expect that the addition of additional countries to it's availability will change that by much. Sure the total number of vehicles produced would be higher, but that doesn't mean it's not going to be limited availability with production numbers set in stone ahead of the launch. They will not be building to meet demand like they would with a base Focus, or even the Focus ST.

It's not a whole new ball game, it's the same exact ball game played with a newer ball.

The RS line has always been limited production. To expect differently is to set oneself up for disappointment.

 

[Intercool]

It's not a whole new ball game, it's the same exact ball game played with a newer ball.

Au contraire.
It is a whole new ball game because the Focus is a global car now.

What will be interesting to see is how ST sales will be affected.

 

[Spoonman]

Well the LanEVO AWD is front-baised and is still do a really well job in drag, rally, circuit, ect. [emoji2]

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No. Don't confuse biased and based

The evo is a transversely mounted, awd car. This makes it FWD based, unlike the Impreza which is a longitudinal mounted front engine; making it "RWD based awd" (This has nothing to do with power delivery). BIAS has to do with how much of the power split is going F/R (and R/L but for this discussion F/R is all that really matters). All other things being equal the Evo would be "better" (more balanced) with a RWD based setup, but it makes up for it by having a simply superb AWD system.

We've yet to see the Focus RS in action so it's possible their system won't behave like this, but generally the problem exhibited by these systems in these situations is they're unable to keep all four wheels spinning in very low traction situations, they're constantly looking for the most traction instead of just spinning the drive shafts. In deep snow often times no one wheel has enough traction available to move the car and you basically just want all four wheels spinning, contributing as much traction as they're able to at any given time to sustain forward momentum(this is why jeeps which get into the truly rough stuff employ lockers). Systems that employ a resting split are extremely predictable and controllable in snow, because the computer isn't all of the sudden changing the grip characteristics around on you. I've yet to drive an AWD system with a lot of electronic intervention that felt nearly as good as these all time systems in snow/really slippery stuff.

For my money if I'm in Evo/STi territory I want a proper AWD drivetrain with a center, front and rear diff (until something truly better comes along), I'm also not at all a fan of a brake biased open front differential in this segment (I've never liked these systems, I don't like having to replace brakes prematurely)...this seems very wrong to me, use brakes to assist in traction all you want but a proper LSD should be doing the heavy lifting up front. I don't want my car eating it's brakes to mimic an LSD.

The systems employed by the RS vs the Evo do not seem all that similar to me after looking over what technical information is available.

I also worry this will be a limited production vehicle (two years or so) which could cause parts for it to become expensive years down the road. This however is coming from someone who buys cars with the expectation of keeping them around awhile (I've 0 plans to get rid of my WRX until it becomes an unreliable money pit).

 

[focus pilot]

No. Don't confuse biased and based

The evo is a transversely mounted, awd car. This makes it FWD based, unlike the Impreza which is a longitudinal mounted front engine; making it "RWD based awd" (This has nothing to do with power delivery). BIAS has to do with how much of the power split is going F/R (and R/L but for this discussion F/R is all that really matters). All other things being equal the Evo would be "better" (more balanced) with a RWD based setup, but it makes up for it by having a simply superb AWD system.

We've yet to see the Focus RS in action so it's possible their system won't behave like this, but generally the problem exhibited by these systems in these situations is they're unable to keep all four wheels spinning in very low traction situations, they're constantly looking for the most traction instead of just spinning the drive shafts. In deep snow often times no one wheel has enough traction available to move the car and you basically just want all four wheels spinning, contributing as much traction as they're able to at any given time to sustain forward momentum(this is why jeeps which get into the truly rough stuff employ lockers). Systems that employ a resting split are extremely predictable and controllable in snow, because the computer isn't all of the sudden changing the grip characteristics around on you. I've yet to drive an AWD system with a lot of electronic intervention that felt nearly as good as these all time systems in snow/really slippery stuff.

For my money if I'm in Evo/STi territory I want a proper AWD drivetrain with a center, front and rear diff (until something truly better comes along), I'm also not at all a fan of a brake biased open front differential in this segment (I've never liked these systems, I don't like having to replace brakes prematurely)...this seems very wrong to me, use brakes to assist in traction all you want but a proper LSD should be doing the heavy lifting up front. I don't want my car eating it's brakes to mimic an LSD.

The systems employed by the RS vs the Evo do not seem all that similar to me after looking over what technical information is available.

I also worry this will be a limited production vehicle (two years or so) which could cause parts for it to become expensive years down the road. This however is coming from someone who buys cars with the expectation of keeping them around awhile (I've 0 plans to get rid of my WRX until it becomes an unreliable money pit).

forgetting about being stuck in snow for a second, on track the RS can send 70% of all engine power to the rear wheels in 300 milliseconds. (acura's sh-awd) the twinster ptu has active torque biasing as well as the rear drive unit. its just not in the center, if that matters at all since its computer activated

 

[PBST21]

When i test drive it believe me im gunna beat the **** out of it! Clutch kicks hand brake high RPM up and downshifts 90 degree flat out turns. Im literally going to try and break it by what your normal track day would do to it. Ill let you guys know. If it feels filmsy at all I will definitely give everyone a heads up!!!

 

[Intercool]

When i test drive it believe me im gunna beat the **** out of it! Clutch kicks hand brake high RPM up and downshifts 90 degree flat out turns. Im literally going to try and break it by what your normal track day would do to it. Ill let you guys know. If it feels filmsy at all I will definitely give everyone a heads up!!!

While on a test drive, do you plan to push the RS (which will be a totally unfamiliar car to you) to its limits?
Are you some kind of professional driver?

Maybe it is better to let each individual person judge the RS by their own set of criteria.

 

[PBST21]

While on a test drive, do you plan to push the RS (which will be a totally unfamiliar car to you) to its limits?
Are you some kind of professional driver?

Maybe it is better to let each individual person judge the RS by their own set of criteria.

No I am not a professional driver but we have an abandoned airstrip here that we can test drive cars on so yea I think I can push it alot harder then the normal test drive in your local town.

 

[buzznwood]

The RS line has always been limited production. To expect differently is to set oneself up for disappointment.

The actual numbers of the mk3 focus RS may well be limited, but to say that the RS line of fords has always been limited is not true. It is the same as saying the ST is limited, which it isn't. Now while the performance models will typically always come later in a models life cycle I'm not sure where all this limited number only information comes from, have there been limited only x made of course there have, but there have also been built to demand RS models.

While this doesn't have anything to do with the AWD and how it will drive, the Euro RS Fords have been around for a very long time, so over the years and have pretty much been subjected to every sort of sales practice, there have been times when there was only one RS model on sale and times when you had up to four to choose from, there been models that only came in one colour, there have been RS models specific to certain countries and there has even been a RS model that got given the RS badge in some countries and not in others.

 

[Dave-ROR]

When i test drive it believe me im gunna beat the **** out of it! Clutch kicks hand brake high RPM up and downshifts 90 degree flat out turns. Im literally going to try and break it by what your normal track day would do to it. Ill let you guys know. If it feels filmsy at all I will definitely give everyone a heads up!!!

Who the hell clutch kicks and uses the hand brakes at a normal (read, not drifting crap) track day?

 

[luckypants]

Who the hell clutch kicks and uses the hand brakes at a normal (read, not drifting crap) track day?

But AWD donuts make the girls wet and the boys jelly and you are the king of the mall parking lot. Street cred.

 

[Xicutioner4768]

Who the hell clutch kicks and uses the hand brakes at a normal (read, not drifting crap) track day?

Also rallycross.

 

[Loki C346]

There will be a new MK4 Focus by either 2017 or 2018 at this point. It is due as the MK3 was on sale since 2011, and a 7-8 year product cycle is quite long. So I cannot see the RS lasting for more than 2-3 model years at this point.

Lately ford has been on a 3-6 year cycle plan. New vehicle is introduced, a refresh (new fascia, maybe a powerpack, etc.) is done three years later, then an all new model three years after that. The Focus refresh is out for 2015CY, so I would expect the all new Focus to be out around 2018MY if the trend continues. 2017 would be too early.

 

[PBST21]

Who the hell clutch kicks and uses the hand brakes at a normal (read, not drifting crap) track day?

This Guy! And for your next question because I can!

 

[suss6052]

Lately ford has been on a 3-6 year cycle plan. New vehicle is introduced, a refresh (new fascia, maybe a powerpack, etc.) is done three years later, then an all new model three years after that. The Focus refresh is out for 2015CY, so I would expect the all new Focus to be out around 2018MY if the trend continues. 2017 would be too early.

The C346 was an extensive facelift of the C307, so the platform dates back to prior to 2004 (initial production of the 05 MY in 2004), with bits possibly still coming off of the C170 in terms of design (the control blade IRS for example). So 2018-2004 = 14 years, two minor refreshes and one major one in between. (2004-2007, 2007-2011, 2012-2014, 2015-2017)

At any rate the point was that beyond the 2017 MY there would be unlikely to be any more Focus RS built until late in the next generation on the basis of it being a two model year cycle at the end of the model run as before. Could that change? Perhaps, but until it does it's as good a guess as any.