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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So i was reading an article in the latest 'fast ford' magazine about a guy who's mods seemed to backfire: he had fitted a mongoose turbo back exhaust system, forge motorsports induction kit (later changed to a cold air system) and an airtec stage 2 intercooler. all these sound like sensible starter mods to increase power and they're all respected tuning brands at least as far as i'm aware. the problem was that not only did it fail to make any gains it was actually down on power! Eventually he had it remapped and got it up to 292hp.

Here's what i don't get, 292 is still not a particularly impressive number given all the mods. mountune can take the car to 275 with just an induction kit, intercooler and remap or 300 if you add an exhaust and a variety of hoses. superchips can give you 35 extra with just a remap or 66 if you add an exhaust and high flow airfilter to their remap.

So what happened to this guys car? is it just that the remap is really the most important part of tuning these days? am i missing something?
 

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I could be wrong here, but Mountune numbers are usually crank/flywheel hp figures. it takes more then bolt ons to hit 300whp. usually E30-40 and/or WMI are needed. i got 287 with a strat ots tune on e30 with full bolt ons. we can go further with custom tunes and wmi, but at that point the hp gain to cost ratio isnt worth it to me. i have a 2867 gen II waiting to be put on after everything comes back from ceramic coating anyway. but full bolt ons with e30-40 will get you 285-300 and in some cases 300-305whp
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
interesting, here in the uk we run on 95 to 98 octane fuel, as far as i'm aware can't get hold of e30. would the higher octane ratings in our standard fuels allow for higher tunes with bolt ons?
 

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interesting, here in the uk we run on 95 to 98 octane fuel, as far as i'm aware can't get hold of e30. would the higher octane ratings in our standard fuels allow for higher tunes with bolt ons?
Absolutely. That's what drives these numbers is octane. Stage 3 on US 93 gets the average ST to 270-280whp based on stratifieds website. Stage 3 91 octane tune is about 10hp less so 98 in Europe probably would easily get you to 300whp.
 

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Firstly mountune numbers are flywheel based, secondly each dyno will read differently, 292whp is very impressive on a stock turbo.

Only way to compare would be to put a mountune 275 or 300 on the same dyno, the numbers that manufacturers state are as useless as the pieces of paper they are written on. Which dyno you use has a huge difference, my car dynod 347whp and 313whp on different dynos, same tune same weather 2 weeks apart. The 313whp was the first dyno 347hp second.

Just remember different dynos are not a measuring tool they are a tuning tool. If you use the same dyno then you can compare but even different dynos same brand don't work (as this was the case on my car).
 

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I believe 98 in Europe is roughly equivalent to US 93. So I would assume you will get stuck at sub 300 with your 98. Do you have access to any ethanol? If not I believe you would need to go big turbo or Water-meth injection to break 300 WHP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
thats interesting about the dynos, i didn't realize that they weren't all equal as it were. it still doesn't answer though why the guys car was making less horsepower on the dyno and he said that he could feel it when driving with the upgrade bolt ons.

as an aside, how come us 93 is the same as euro 95?
 

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I bored out my cylinders to 88mm, and the rest is all bolt on goodies, Dynoed the vehicle and she reaches 333 hp 340 Tq on 22PSI.(EFR med flow internal wastegate) With all the electronics on this car a precise tune is what makes or breaks the numbers. IMO.
 

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Yes, The ST's intake/exhaust are very good from the factory. Intercooler only helps in heatsoak at that point. Although the HP on the tune is small the Torque is a lot more.
 

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To answer the fuel difference questions. The ratings are different due to how they're graded. The US and Canada use the anti knock index and Europe uses RON.
 

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EU 98 octane = US 93 octane
 

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thats interesting about the dynos, i didn't realize that they weren't all equal as it were. it still doesn't answer though why the guys car was making less horsepower on the dyno and he said that he could feel it when driving with the upgrade bolt ons.

as an aside, how come us 93 is the same as euro 95?
It is all about the tune, changing parts isn't going to cause any pure HP/Torque gains without a tune. From my understanding of ECU logic, the car will be calling for the same amount of boost, fuel, etc etc. So changing a few parts out wouldn't change the ECU logic, that is why you would need to tune in order to unlock for lack of a better term, the extra performance that you've gotten by adding extra parts to say increase air flow.

Don't quote me on this, but from what I've read I believe our ECU has a torque target that it aims for and once it hits that target is wouldn't push for any more power, by increasing boost or advancing timing. I haven't found anywhere to confirm that though, its just 2nd hand info I've gotten off the internet.

I would guess you could loss power by using the bolt on parts because the ECU logic is setup to work with a specific part set, and changing parts will cause you to be outside of what the tune/ECU logic is setup to do and see thus causing a possible loss in power. The ECU logic in moderns cars is crazy complicated.

With that being said you could see other performance benefits such as decreasing spool time.
 

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These cars operate based on a torque target (many tuners can vouch for this, i believe) and are mafless based (speed density). Speed density is when the computer uses air temps and pressure to calculate volume of the air entering the engine. At that point, it adds the correct amount of fuel and timing for a specific amount of torque. Our max boost is ever changing on weather because of the torque target the ecu has.
 
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