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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I wasn't sure where to post this, but the forum description said "dealer feedback", so it seems approriate here.

With a heavy heart (well, not too heavy), I traded in my 2013 Focus ST on Saturday
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For this monster
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That's a 2016 charger Scat pack, and it is mean. A totally different animal than the ST.

The point of this post, is that someone is going to get a great deal on an ST. My car had about 83,000 miles on it, and they are at least 95% highway. I do vehicle accident reconstruction all over the midwest. If you're in the neighborhood, there's a good chance you've seen my yellow ST parked on the shoulder of the highway as I surveyed accident scenes. it's no garage queen, but given how most STs are beat on, I'd say this one has been "babied" by comparison. The brake pads are still stock, and look close to new....that's how many highway miles this thing has seen.

Anyways, the car is currently at Laukempor motors in Mound City, MO. It's a great bunch of guys there, most of them are total gearheads. They currently have the car priced at $15,000, which seems fair. I think that's probably a tad over book value, but this isn't your average 83k mile ST either. It's certainly had an easier life than most.

Just wanted to give a shout out to the guys at Laukempor. They were an honest bunch, which is hard to find in car dealers.
 

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hell yea. i love the exhaust note on that motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Congrats on the new car. It'd be great to get your feedback on the Charger after you've had some time to drive it.

Thanks. I only have about 400 miles on it, but initial impressions are good. It's a totally different beast than the ST though, and has required a complete re calibration of my driving habits.

Between the front wheel drive, stellar traction control system, and sticky tires, I felt like a hero in the ST. You can enter corners too hot, the rear end swings around a little, then floor it mid corner to straighten it back up again. Any idiot can do it. Until you turn the TC off that is, and then almost kill yourself, and realize how much the car was helping you.

The Charger is nothing like that. It feels like it wants to kill you all the time. The TC will eventually save you, but even in full-nanny mode, it allows A LOT of yaw angle before the TC steps in. I can't believe they put it past Chrysler's lawyers like that. As I said, I do accident reconstruction work, and I sure see a lot of crashed chargers and challengers in the tow lots. I think there is good reason for that!

The Charger has better highway manners, due to it's huge interior size, huge weight, and huge power. All great attributes to eat miles.

So far, I'm liking the trade. It's hard not to love a 485 horsepower rear drive car. We'll see in a few weeks how the handling shapes up. It takes a week or so to get used to a new car.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It is when the car is 4400 lbs. Nice car however.
And I feel every last one of them too.

Any reviewer who says "it carries its weight well", or "it feels lighter than it really is", or "the weight disappears at speed" is just full of it. Or they don't know what they are talking about. The Charger is big and heavy, and there is no getting around it. Sometimes, that can be an asset though. Even though the suspension is stiff, the small bumps just disappear, swallowed up by the enormity of it all.

It's a competent handler, .91g on the skid pad is nothing to be ashamed of. But you can't just huck it into a corner like the ST. The charger requires more planning than that.
 

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I love my St, but sometimes you see that one car that catches you just right and you have to get it. Take today for instance, my local dealer just got 2 RS in... it was difficult to walk away.
 

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And I feel every last one of them too.

Any reviewer who says "it carries its weight well", or "it feels lighter than it really is", or "the weight disappears at speed" is just full of it. Or they don't know what they are talking about. The Charger is big and heavy, and there is no getting around it. Sometimes, that can be an asset though. Even though the suspension is stiff, the small bumps just disappear, swallowed up by the enormity of it all.

It's a competent handler, .91g on the skid pad is nothing to be ashamed of. But you can't just huck it into a corner like the ST. The charger requires more planning than that.
Power adder and that 4400 will not be noticeable. Do they make a turbo or supercharger kit for it?
 

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I just watched an episode of Head2Head - Charger vs 350 GT. It was on Netflix, check it out. The Mustang comes out tops in all tests but we're talking a few milliseconds here and there. All and all, both cars are just undoubtedly the meanest, sexiest cars out. Enjoy!


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Discussion Starter #13
Power adder and that 4400 will not be noticeable. Do they make a turbo or supercharger kit for it?
Ha, they do indeed. The 6.4L with a blower on it will out do a hellcat at around 730 RWHP, on totally stock internals. But it requires all sorts of knock mitigation and tuning to do it.
This is my daily driver, and a business vehicle. Reliability is key, and although fuel mileage is certainly not a reason to buy a charger scat pack, it's still something to keep in mind. The internet says it will hit the EPA 25mpg number on the highway, which is what my Focus did. Sure, the focus sticker said 32 hwy, but at 75-80 mph, I got 25 mpg all day long.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
I just watched an episode of Head2Head - Charger vs 350 GT. It was on Netflix, check it out. The Mustang comes out tops in all tests but we're talking a few milliseconds here and there. All and all, both cars are just undoubtedly the meanest, sexiest cars out. Enjoy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I considered the Mustang, and the Camaro, and the Challenger. I desperately wanted a manual transmission. But alas, they are becoming harder and harder to find. The ST and the RS are rareities in this slushbox automatic world.

The mustang and camaro were woefully bad for cargo space, and I need room to haul all my survey equipment (and 3 kids, if necessary). The challenger SHOULD have been able to haul all my stuff, but the rear seat fold down design is just awful. They don't fold even close to flat, and the head rests interfere with the front seats when the rears are folded down. The challenger is a big car, but clearly cargo space wasn't a main concern for the engineers.

The Charger and chevy SS fit the bill. Manual SS sedans are sold out nationwide (I looked for 2 months). And Auto to auto, I'll take the charger over the more expensive SS. And although it's an automatic, the ZF 8 speed is one of the best. Shifts are quicker than I can do in a manual, and it's great at finding the right gear immediately. If I'm stuck with an auto, this is the one to have.

A couple lessons for Dodge and Chevy here. Dodge: Clearly there is a market for a 4 door manual sedan, as evidenced by the SS selling so hot (at discounted rates though). Put a manual in the Charger, and some will buy it (I will!) And Chevy: If you made a cheaper version of the SS in the high $30k low $40k range, they will sell, as evidenced by the charger's success. The SS doesn't sell because it costs too much, not because people don't want it. I don't need lane departure, auto braking, adaptive cruise, and cross path detection.
 

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I love my ST for it's nimble handling on the twisty roads 20160508_172548.jpg 20160522_194829.jpg . but I also love a highway eating rear wheel drive muscle car so after I paid off my 13 ST I bought a 16 Scat Pack Challenger 6spd now I have the choice of driving the one best suited for the type of roads I will be driving on.
 

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Thanks. I only have about 400 miles on it, but initial impressions are good. It's a totally different beast than the ST though, and has required a complete re calibration of my driving habits.

Between the front wheel drive, stellar traction control system, and sticky tires, I felt like a hero in the ST. You can enter corners too hot, the rear end swings around a little, then floor it mid corner to straighten it back up again. Any idiot can do it. Until you turn the TC off that is, and then almost kill yourself, and realize how much the car was helping you.

The Charger is nothing like that. It feels like it wants to kill you all the time. The TC will eventually save you, but even in full-nanny mode, it allows A LOT of yaw angle before the TC steps in. I can't believe they put it past Chrysler's lawyers like that. As I said, I do accident reconstruction work, and I sure see a lot of crashed chargers and challengers in the tow lots. I think there is good reason for that!

The Charger has better highway manners, due to it's huge interior size, huge weight, and huge power. All great attributes to eat miles.

So far, I'm liking the trade. It's hard not to love a 485 horsepower rear drive car. We'll see in a few weeks how the handling shapes up. It takes a week or so to get used to a new car.
How's the driving position of the Charger compared to the ST? I'm a tall guy, and I feel like the ST's placement of seat/pedals/steering wheel just feels 'right' and I've got plenty of knee-room. Especially for a small car.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
How's the driving position of the Charger compared to the ST? I'm a tall guy, and I feel like the ST's placement of seat/pedals/steering wheel just feels 'right' and I've got plenty of knee-room. Especially for a small car.
I just had my first 500 mile road trip in the charger today. Since the seat is so adjustable, I'm pretty sure you can make it feel almost exactly like the ST if you wanted to. My personal preference is to lower the seat more than the ST and put my legs out in front of me, something the ST didn't really let me do. I always felt like I sat high in the ST. Otherwise, the charger seats are much larger. Although the side bolsters are large and very supportive(just like the ST) they are also further apart, so they don't squeeze you. I'm 6'1", about 215 lbs, and I feel like I'm about as wide as the ST seats will handle. If I gained another 20 lbs, I think the recaros would be a squeeze. The charger on the other hand, could easily fit a 250 lb guy without issue.

It's BIG. Everything about it is big...it's heavy, it's long, it's wide, both exterior and interior. All of that makes it a great highway bomber. I can position the seat back far enough that my legs are almost straight reaching the pedals. In that position, I can also sit in the back seat without my knees hitting the back of the front seat. It's that big.

The ST fit me like a glove, and I thought it was very comfortable for the 83,000 miles I owned it. But the charger is a better cruiser in every way. It's smoother riding, quieter (even with that motor), and has passing power that's impossible to describe.

It's also very thirsty (I got 20.8 mpg at 75mph the whole time), and the ST will run circles around it on a twisty canyon road. Different tools for different jobs!
 

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Congratulations on the new ride! I was close to buying a 2012 R/T five years ago, but got approved for a mortgage so went the more 'sensible' route. I remember how stupendously WIDE those Charger doors were, the whole car was huge in every aspect as you say. I love the styling and power of the Charger, but I simply cannot picture myself driving a non-manual car these days. I grew up in England so have always driven manuals (with the exception of a dark, three-year run in a Chevy Impala). I'd honestly take a stripped out base model Focus with a stick as opposed to a Titanium, such is its importance to me. That said, if I HAD to choose an auto, it would categorically be in a Charger!
 
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