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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Not the typical tire post looking for the best race tire. I need a fun daily driver.

I am nearing the end of the life of my F1's. In the fronts anyways. After 15k miles I have 1/32 of tread left. By the end of summer I'll need new shoes. Despite never rotating these, the wear has been amazingly even. The F1's have been a good tire overall, but I have two gripes:

Too much grip for street driving. Up to about 12k miles, when I exceeded the limits of the tires, oversteer would begin to manifest as a choppy-hoppy front end feedback. My cornering improved as a result, but I never liked it. And burnouts were just as likely to be clutch abuse if my engagement or rpms wasn't right. After 12k miles, they slide a little warning me I'm going to fast, but they are at the end of their life. I'm not sure if the tire dries out as it ages/wears or if the rubber is different after the last 3/32nds.

Second issue, especially for the family, is the ride is a little harsh on rough roads. This is my family DD, so it will be staying stock.

In the past I have run General Tires Grabber UHP, which I liked, but have long since been discontinued on passenger tires. I could safely slide on all four tires and still control my direction. I've driven on Continental DWS, but I was underwhelmed. Good tire, but not as amazing after driving on summer tires, so I know that All seasons are a compromise for colder weather.

I live in SoCal, so I only experience sub-40 temps in the mornings from November to January, but I don't like how the F1's feel cold. (Almost had an accident because I hadn't experience the loss of grip in 38 degree weather before, a half a mile from my house). So I am on the fence between trying a different Summer tire or going to an All-season so my family car is always safe even in morning frost. Legally, all manufacturers recommend summer tires be driven above 40 degrees and some data suggests that grip begins to drop below 60 degrees. But not all tires use the same recipe and may react to temperatures slightly different.

I'm leaning towards a Continential DW for a summer tire or a BFgoodrich Comp-2 A/S. I am also curious about the Dunlop DZ-102.

I am open to suggestions and feedback.
 

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Any tire you get will start to loose traction as it goes through more heat cycles with burnouts and such. The Michelin Pilot Super Sports are more grippy than the OE Goodyears.
 

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Pilot super sports will improve upon the F1's in literally every way. Grip (straight line definitely and cornering), treadware (unless you goof more), water resistance, etc but the road harshness MIGHT be a little worse.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Any tire you get will start to loose traction as it goes through more heat cycles with burnouts and such. The Michelin Pilot Super Sports are more grippy than the OE Goodyears.
That confirms my suspicions. FWD seems to accelerate the process of heat cycles, even as a DD. I'm not sure I want grippier. I want a tire with progressive slip to warn me as I reach my traction limit. This was my F1 complaint. They would chatter when they reached the edge, instead of a predictable and controllable slip.

Also, I want a less harsh ride. And $195 per tire is a lot of money for me.
 

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That confirms my suspicions. FWD seems to accelerate the process of heat cycles, even as a DD. I'm not sure I want grippier. I want a tire with progressive slip to warn me as I reach my traction limit. This was my F1 complaint. They would chatter when they reached the edge, instead of a predictable and controllable slip.

Also, I want a less harsh ride. And $195 per tire is a lot of money for me.
So you would rather get worse performing tires so that you know better when you are nearing the breaking point of them? I get that having a warning would be nice...but I fail to see the pros outweighing the cons here. Safety comes along with performance when you are talking tires.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'm a daily-driving autocrosser with a I'm-a-husband-and-a-father budget. I just got a set of the Hankook Ventus V12 evo2 installed Saturday. I'm quite pleased with them. Today is the last day you can buy them and qualify for the $100 mail-in rebate. Before rebate, they are $128 a tire.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...tireModel=Ventus+V12+evo2&partnum=34YR8K120XL
Can you give me a comparison to the F1s? This is the kind of information I'm looking for.
 

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I'm a daily-driving autocrosser with a I'm-a-husband-and-a-father budget. I just got a set of the Hankook Ventus V12 evo2 installed Saturday. I'm quite pleased with them. Today is the last day you can buy them and qualify for the $100 mail-in rebate. Before rebate, they are $128 a tire.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...tireModel=Ventus+V12+evo2&partnum=34YR8K120XL
Can you give me a comparison to the F1s? This is the kind of information I'm looking for.
I can't. I bought my ST used, and the previous owner put cheap tires on before trading it in, so I've never driven on the F1s.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
So you would rather get worse performing tires so that you know better when you are nearing the breaking point of them? I get that having a warning would be nice...but I fail to see the pros outweighing the cons here. Safety comes along with performance when you are talking tires.
What do the Super Sports feel like at the edge of their traction in street driving? Describe it to me. Use the F1 as a comparison. And how do they respond in 40 degree weather? And what is the lowest price you've seen them at? And how harsh are they compared to the F1s?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Apparently the tire I want is Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ based on my search results. It performs very close to a UHP tire, but being an A/S it won't lose grip when temps drop during winter frost. I'm going to look more into this option.
 

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What do the Super Sports feel like at the edge of their traction in street driving? Describe it to me. Use the F1 as a comparison. And how do they respond in 40 degree weather? And what is the lowest price you've seen them at? And how harsh are they compared to the F1s?
Well to be honest I consider the F1s to be a not very good tire. For what it is, it gets the job done, but not nearly as well as other options in the same price range. In 40 degree weather, just about ANY tire that is a "summer tire" does awful. The F1s do awful, and the MPSS's probably do awful too. I haven't had them in the cold yet so I don't know, but I guarantee it sucks.

The super sports at the edge of traction in street driving have NO wiggle or bounce/hop/skitter. They will start sliding from what I have experienced. Obviously tire pressure, car weight, occupant weight, road surface, temperature, etc can affect how the tired behave when they lose traction, but first of all it is VERY difficult to make the Pilot Super Sports lose traction, they're phenomenal tires. A sharp sweeping turn nearby my house is the only time I've ever gotten them to break traction, and it started with a VERY slight slide motion. Since I know how the car behaves I don't ever let off the gas when I start to slide because I know that'll make it worse, but when I mash the throttle to get myself going where I want to go again it will be back on rails. And that is exactly how I would describe the Pilot Super Sports for street use, like being on rails. Which is why they are so widely suggested. Being a street and not a competition tire I doubt it'll have that jittery "hop" sensation you described because it is sticky, but not enough for it to bounce in a turn I don't think. I run an upgraded size of 245/40r18 by the way, so that is another consideration for me. I will say that I do not recall a single time when someone got Pilot Super Sports and were NOT happy with them. However, if you are not eager to spend the money to order them then I'd recommend the tires @Bald Wonder recommended for a budget.

The lowest price I've seen them was on Discount Tire Direct, they were 197.34 each when I bought them, but right now they are 191.97 for the 245/40r18 size (which I recommend). So for 767.88 to your door you could get them. When I got mine, they had 2 rebates available. A $50 rebate for using their credit card, and a $70 rebate for buying a set of 4 Michelin tires. So I got both rebates, and the credit card (which you have to use for the purchase) is 0% interest for 6 months so I'm paying no interest and I have 6 months to pay the tires off instead of dropping all the money at once. You can't get those rebates, but you can still get the credit card and have the interest deal I'm fairy certain.

Any other questions just let me know, hope it helps.
 

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A great summer budget tire I have always had success with is the Sumitomo HTR ZIII, they are usually very light on the wallet, offer great grip for the price. I had them on my Mustang, 14 WRX, 07 STI for summer only tires. I never tracked the tires due to all cars having dedicated sets of track wheels and tires. For the price I was always pleased with them. For winter tires I have used Michelin tires only, I have had Pilot Super Sport A/S3 all seasons, and Michelin Aplin PA3 (Now there is a PA4 model) I loved them. The Aplin PA3 were amazing in the snow. The A/S3 were damn good in snow and better when it was colder outside.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
A great summer budget tire I have always had success with is the Sumitomo HTR ZIII, they are usually very light on the wallet, offer great grip for the price. I had them on my Mustang, 14 WRX, 07 STI for summer only tires. I never tracked the tires due to all cars having dedicated sets of track wheels and tires. For the price I was always pleased with them. For winter tires I have used Michelin tires only, I have had Pilot Super Sport A/S3 all seasons, and Michelin Aplin PA3 (Now there is a PA4 model) I loved them. The Aplin PA3 were amazing in the snow. The A/S3 were damn good in snow and better when it was colder outside.
Tell me more about the Mich Pilot A/S3. My point of comparison is the Goodyear F1s. How harsh is the ride? How do they feel at the edge of their grip? Snow is not a big issue, but California is a desert climate which can drop to 30 degrees at night and rise to 80 during the day during winter in my area. So I'm still debating Summer vs. All season now that my commute begins at 6 AM when it can still be frosty outside during winter.
 

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Tell me more about the Mich Pilot A/S3. My point of comparison is the Goodyear F1s. How harsh is the ride? How do they feel at the edge of their grip? Snow is not a big issue, but California is a desert climate which can drop to 30 degrees at night and rise to 80 during the day during winter in my area. So I'm still debating Summer vs. All season now that my commute begins at 6 AM when it can still be frosty outside during winter.
I had the A/S3 in 265/35-18 on a 18x9.5 wheel on my WRX, the ride was GREAT, grip was there, no noise at all compared to the loud F1s, cold traction was damn good, dry traction was about as good as low end summer tires. They wore evenly, didnt get louder as they got older. I put about 35K miles on the tires and they had reasonable amount of tread left on them before I sold the wheel/ tire set up. A friend has the same tires on his car in a 275/35 set up on his WRX. Has close to 50k miles on them and he is just about due for new tires. Yes the price is higher with the A/S3 but you definitely get what you pay for.
 

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If you can live with the notion of not getting the absolute best tire and still having fun with your car and even getting decent miles from them then you should think of alternatives to the higher priced major brands. I have been eyeballing the Consumer reports ratings of all-season UHP (ultra high performance) tires. My feelings on that in a moment. First, if you're wearing thru your tires in 20-25k miles then you should either be very dedicated to your choice of a $1000 set of tires or switch to tires that last longer. I switched to all-seasons and am not going back. The Michelin AS3's are the best rated AS tires with a warranty. However, there are others that are nearly as good for half the cost. Look at the Laufenn S Fit AS tire which you can get at Pep Boys for half the cost of Michelin tires, $500 including mounting and optional hazard warranty. You lose some of the all-out traction of the summer UHP tires but you generally gain about another 10k miles and better cold weather performance. Right now, our size Laufenn tires are on sale at Pep Boys; buy three get one free but you have to order them four days ahead. I'm planning on going this route next tire change. Details here; https://www.pepboys.com/tires/detai.../FORD/FOCUS/0/4-1999%202.0L%20DOHC/2WD/5#tab4
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
If you can live with the notion of not getting the absolute best tire and still having fun with your car and even getting decent miles from them then you should think of alternatives to the higher priced major brands. I have been eyeballing the Consumer reports ratings of all-season UHP (ultra high performance) tires. My feelings on that in a moment. First, if you're wearing thru your tires in 20-25k miles then you should either be very dedicated to your choice of a $1000 set of tires or switch to tires that last longer. I switched to all-seasons and am not going back. The Michelin AS3's are the best rated AS tires with a warranty. However, there are others that are nearly as good for half the cost. Look at the Laufenn S Fit AS tire which you can get at Pep Boys for half the cost of Michelin tires, $500 including mounting and optional hazard warranty. You lose some of the all-out traction of the summer UHP tires but you generally gain about another 10k miles and better cold weather performance. Right now, our size Laufenn tires are on sale at Pep Boys; buy three get one free but you have to order them four days ahead. I'm planning on going this route next tire change. Details here; https://www.pepboys.com/tires/detai.../FORD/FOCUS/0/4-1999%202.0L%20DOHC/2WD/5#tab4
For the tires you are recommending, the Laufenn, are they a rebadge of another tire? Are there any performance reviews like braking distance 50-0 dry/wet? How harsh is the ride? What do they feel like when pushed to the edge? I get the impression you don't have these yet, but if you do I'd like to know this stuff.
 
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