Ford Focus ST Forum banner
1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well,

My dad has pretty much every bolt on for his Focus ST. A Levels intercooler, MBRP piping, Mountune intake, catted downpipe, custom exhaust, Mountune DV valve, Cobb RMM. Now on Cobb Stage 3 Tune. We've gone from [email protected] mph to [email protected]

What is going on with this car? I find it hard to believe with every mod on here the car is absolutely no quicker whatsoever. The initial runs were done in the scorching heat here in Florida, with today the newest run after the downpipe install and tune to stage 3, and what do we get? a [email protected] mph w/ 2.2 60'. All other times we've ran 2.2 60's as well.

So, I'm asking, what's going on here? Please, inb4 driver mod etc. Is something seriously wrong with this car ? I see people posting left and right that they are hitting 13's with just a tune at over 100mph, yet this with all these and stage 3 tuning can't hit even a 14.0?

Our next step is to strap it to a dyno and have an actual tune written for the vehicle but I have my doubts about plopping $500.00 down for all of that jazz if it's not even going to make a difference. So anyone with insight, please help before my father decides to trade this thing in for something silly like a Fusion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
524 Posts
The custom tune does make a big seat of the pants difference, although I have no numbers to back up my case here. Hopefully others will chime in that can provide some numbers. What type of tires is he using? It could be that the torque increase is only equating to wheel spin. This car with the stock turbo has an incredibly strong torque spike compared to say the mk7 GTI I drove the other day. Huge torque spike = no traction
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
I have very similar mods and I'm running a $50 base tune from stratified and running [email protected] regularly. Drivermod and tune. Check my slip on my IG page @FocuzMan

Just from my personal experiences I assume you are spinning first, spinning on the 1-2 shift or you have traction on. You must be in sport mode at least. I run with all assist off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
FocuzMan, we've run it every which way possible with over 50 passes on this car and it's the same result. I'm guessing the tune is what's killing us, it's either not really making the power or not.

First, there isn't much spin, a slip of the clutch, easy on the gas and it tears off, no spinning in 2nd - sport, or all off - no difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,284 Posts
See my signature and also some of the threads I have made here.

With some more massaging, I know there's a 13.2 in the car as it sits.

That's only with the spare removed.

Let's go through a few things -

1) Are you a heavy person? 70 lbs works out to about a tenth in this car. I weigh 190 lbs, so if you're 260 lbs that would cost you about 1 mph.

2) Track Day prep - For me it's spare tire + jack/tool out and a bit more than 5 gallons of fuel to equal 40% ethanol. If you are going with a full tank and leaving the spare in that could be a bit more than 1 mph loss.

3) Are you letting the car cool down between runs? I have found you must sit with the hood up for about 1 hour and 10/20 mins. If you can push the car up to the line great, if not then start it up, get to the staging lanes and shut it off.

The point is you need to keep the car under 210 degrees. For me this is nothing new, it used to happen with my SRT-4. If coolant temps reach 210 degrees or higher the car will pull down time.

This is where logging with your Cobb AP is important. I haven't done it yet because of time, but I am going to pull 1/2 gallon of coolant from the car and replace it with 1/2 gallon distilled water + Royal Purple ICE.

That should keep the car around 200-205 degrees in even the hottest weather. This ensures max timing, which in my car is 26 degrees. I loose nearly 2 mph when my timing drops to about 17 degrees with coolant temps 210-220 degrees.

"Driver Mod" does help but actually having traction helps more. I've been doing Uber with this car since I got it and because it's a manual I don't want to jerk my passengers around, so guess what I get to practice? = Launching the car smoothly

So I'll hazard a guess that if I left my street tires on (Stock Eagle F1's), I could get a 2.0-2.1 with the 2 step set at say 2000-2200 rpm. It would run 13.7-13.8 @100-101 mph

99% of Pure Street tires will get you 2.0-2.1 60' if you don't spin too hard and don't burn the clutch down in the process. Slipping the clutch does more to wear it than to use slicks and mash it off the line.

I launch at 4300 rpm currently. It's been higher and I'm going to keep going down until my 60' times plateau. My PB is 1.76 (13.46), but I ran my best MPH with a 1.96 60' which is terrible for slicks.

This is why I say there's at least a 13.2-13.3 in it.

Last thing I'll say is shifting is important. I have found shifting 1-2 at 6000 or so, 2-3 at 6000 and 3-4 at 5800-6000 rpm with my Unleashed Tune. Torrie recently told me the shift light (the same one that tells you when to shift for best fuel economy) is set at 5700 rpm; that's something I may try next time I hit the track.

Car has 30+ passes on it. First thing I bought was slicks actually. I got the tune because 91 octane fuel is terrible and I didn't want to handicap myself. I bought an AEM WMI system next to get away from blending fuel.

I will tune the WMI at some point in the near future because none of the E85 pumps are super close. There is one near Fontana (California Speedway) which is very convenient but I have to fill up before heading to Famoso or Sears Point since there no pumps in those areas. There are two near Sacramento Raceway which allows me to drive up on 91 and preserve my fuel economy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Here's the answers -

I'm 170 lbs, and we do not have the spare tire/jack in the back, always run on less than 1/4 of fuel. 22psi on the stock F1's. Car sits for around 20-25 minutes hood up before each run, sometimes longer. I can only launch at around 2500 rpm, anything hire and the tires feel like they will burn off and go into outer space. Launch control? nope. car falls on it's face as soon as you begin to let the clutch out. The car shifts 1-2 at almost 6k, the rest are roughly 5500-5700 rpm.

My GTI with a APR stage 1 and a home made "intake" on street tires launching at 3k rpm nets me consistent 13.15-20's with 2.0 60' times all day long with 2 kid seats in the back and a 45lbs of bowling balls sometimes. I know I can't compare the two realistically but it's a shame he's put this money and effort into his car and it runs the exact same, heartbreaking really since it's probably the last car he'll own. I may need to data log at some point to see if there is anything going amiss but the car pulls strong on the street and feels great, I actually enjoy it more than my GTI because of how it feels. I don't know :/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,284 Posts
Here's the answers -

I'm 170 lbs, and we do not have the spare tire/jack in the back, always run on less than 1/4 of fuel. 22psi on the stock F1's. Car sits for around 20-25 minutes hood up before each run, sometimes longer. I can only launch at around 2500 rpm, anything hire and the tires feel like they will burn off and go into outer space. Launch control? nope. car falls on it's face as soon as you begin to let the clutch out. The car shifts 1-2 at almost 6k, the rest are roughly 5500-5700 rpm.

My GTI with a APR stage 1 and a home made "intake" on street tires launching at 3k rpm nets me consistent 13.15-20's with 2.0 60' times all day long with 2 kid seats in the back and a 45lbs of bowling balls sometimes. I know I can't compare the two realistically but it's a shame he's put this money and effort into his car and it runs the exact same, heartbreaking really since it's probably the last car he'll own. I may need to data log at some point to see if there is anything going amiss but the car pulls strong on the street and feels great, I actually enjoy it more than my GTI because of how it feels. I don't know :/
GTI is underrated heavily from the factory and really wakes up with a tune. So much so that APR's original Stage 1 tune did in the clutch on those cars. Stage 1 with a DP as seen on Tyler's car with 100 octane is well over 300 hp ([email protected]).

You won't touch 270-290 without blended tune on a ST. You'll spend lots of money to get to 300 hp on the stock turbo, not worth it at all.

As I said before letting it cool anything less than an hour it will not give you favorable timing.

Let's break down the mods -

The only power producing mods are the down pipe and the tune. The intake helps a little but if the car is limiting timing that is going to be your main problem, it's not heat soak of the inter-cooler, it's coolant temperature.

When you first get to the track, take out the spare/jack/tool and let it sit for at least an hour. Use your AP monitor coolant temperature. Like I said previously; coolant temps must be under 210 degrees or your timing will be pulled as the car accelerates down the track.

Also launching at 2500 rpm is fine with street tires but I launch at 4300 rpm. JST is launching at 4500 or so. He's gotten 1.71 60' and the best of 1.68

To run a 13 you must have a 60' about 2.2, so you're already there. Next your 1/8 mile time must be under 9 seconds.

Finally just to show you how much speed you loose when timing is being pulled.

On my first pass last time out I broke my throttle pedal, my best friend was Johnny on the spot and fixed it. The car sat for about 90 mins, including a rain delay. First pass after the repair, too much air in the slicks = [email protected]

Only cooled, hood not open for maybe 30 mins until next pass = [email protected]; 15-20 mins later [email protected]

1.5x mph loss or about 12-15 hp

20-25 mins is not long enough.

With 50 passes on the car you should have bought slicks or at least drag radials. I have never driven the car down the track on street tires, it's pointless and slipping the clutch means more wear.

Text Document Font Paper Receipt
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stealth

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,284 Posts
Oh one more thing. The tune might be your problem, try flashing the car back to stock and then flashing the tune back in. Frankly Cobb tunes are fairly conservative, I would contact JST since they are actively drag racing both Focus they own.

Stage 3 car (inter-cooler, down pipe, cat-back, intake, Cobb flash), rear seats out, E30 tune, Nitto drag radials = [email protected]
 
  • Like
Reactions: cheap_ass_alex

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,284 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: Stealth

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,284 Posts
sorry the stages are bs. You want power get big turbo. You want good times get slicks and pull out as much weight as you can.
Speaking of which, we need the ability to change your launch rpm and we need to try different cold air pressures. If we can get your 60' down by a tenth or two, you should be running 11's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,101 Posts
Speaking of which, we need the ability to change your launch rpm and we need to try different cold air pressures. If we can get your 60' down by a tenth or two, you should be running 11's.
Im going to try lower launch i got 4000 4500 5000 5500. 5500 was what i was launching at. I need that sweet spot shift between 1-2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,284 Posts
Im going to try lower launch i got 4000 4500 5000 5500. 5500 was what i was launching at. I need that sweet spot shift between 1-2.
You have a larger turbo, 6500-7000? The stock turbo forces you to shift sooner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,284 Posts
you bought a street/track car and took it drag racing?

You put on a few bolt ons and figured it was going to drop full seconds off your time?

#drivermod!
#sellitandbuyamustang <---they go in straight lines better/faster
Do they? I've seen plenty of poorly driven Mustangs go very slow.

JST just went 12.17 with bolt-on parts. Granted they took a ton of weight out of the car, but look at it another way.

700+ lbs is 7 tenths of a second roughly.

Slicks will drop 3 tenths for every 1 tenth drop from your 60' time. OP is at 2.02 a 1 tenth drop is 1.92 that is more than possible on Nitto drag radials, the least sticky and the cheapest you can buy.

That alone would put him into the mid 13's, now it doesn't seem that bad. Only he and myself have heard Stage 3 cars run faster. Hell I still don't understand how a dead stock car can run 101-102 mph.

It likely had to do with really cool air, Yo Ken ran [email protected] dead stock. By the way if weight is the thing, the 101 was done by a stock ST3 car and the 102 was done by a dead stock ST1

Next problem is he's not letting the car cool enough, it's not giving him max timing. Let's say he picks up 1.5-2.0 mph from that; all things being the same he would drop another tenth or so.

Now we're looking at mid to low 13's at about 103; where's that final 2-3 mph? JST ran their Blue ST (ST3) without the rear seats, spare, jack/tool and passenger seat. I could be wrong about the passenger seat, but anyway that's roughly 170 lbs out of the car. Oh by the way the Panda car did have all the seats out when they ran 12.8 on slicks + Stage 3. (1.8x 60')

Both cars have run 107-108 mph; I know there's one trick that's not talked about that I applied to my car and picked up 1.5 mph. You'll have to search the How-To threads for it.

Just working on my 60' time, I can find another tenth, no additional power needed.

Again another reason for doing things one thing at a time to gauge impact or lack of it.

@SIstomper is a wealth of information

But the rest of it I applied from my time with my Neon SRT-4 which ran [email protected] (1.77 60
) with Stage 1 PCM, Wastegate (18 psi), AEM CAI, 3" Turbo Back Exhaust, 23" tall M&H slicks, rear seat and passenger seat + spare out.

Did 250hp/300ft on a Dynopack 91 octane. I ran a bottle of Lucas Octane Boost just to make sure no timing was pulled from 91 octane.

The ST is quite a bit heaver and I could pull the seats out and it will run somewhere between 13.2 and 13.3 at around 103-104 mph

A Fox Body, SN95, SN197 and the current car are all above 3300 lbs stock. A Coyote Stock SN197 holds the record at [email protected] making somewhere in the mid 400's hp wise.

First issue is comparing FWD to RWD. A good 60' in a RWD car at this power level is 1.3-1.4

A big tire (26") Honda can get down in the 1.5's with Boost By Gear but that's also a stripped race car. For a more fair comparison we can look at IFO/MIR/IDRC/CMI Force Inducted Sport where they are limited to a smaller turbo (62 mm), must run a full interior (all seats, carpet, dash, everything) and 24.5 tire. There some breaks for using a smaller engine (1.6) but that's not important.

Most of the competitive cars run high to mid 9 seconds. Chances are you are not going to drive your Coyote Stock car on the street. Most fast Hondas aren't daily driven for theft reasons.

1.6, high 1.5's is normal there, lots of cars are in the low 1.7's. You race against Honda's, WRX, EVO's and GTR's. Legally you can run 10.0 and no more than 135 mph without any safety equipment others than a SNELL helmet and jacket which aren't that expensive. This is because the Focus and lots of other cars past 2010 have side air bags. NHRA did this to encourage those with Super cars to come out and race and not street race, but you can take advantage of this too.

For the cost of a Coyote Stock Build you can run mid-low 10's in a Focus ST. First you have to overcome the weight (3300-3400 with driver). 550+ hp that will get you 129-130 mph trap speed. Next you need to get your 60' down in the mid 1.6's; that takes trial and error but the M&H's are capable of it because it's run those times on similar platforms.

There's only one car currently over 550 hp (562) on these forums. The vast majority are stock with bolt-ons, many without even a tune and small minority of those with turbo upgrades.

Most them are in the low to mid 300's and a few over 350 and small number over 400. Edge Autosport's car would have run mid to low 11's at sea level, it ran 12.2 in that terrible air in Colorado.

I don't get this a Mustang will do it better. A brand new Mustang will easily run high 12's, banging the gears but most will run mid to low 13's stock (#driver mod). I can run high 12's with a tune, dp and slicks.

New Mustang is 30K+, ST cost me just under $25K and after all payments just about $29,000

It will be no less reliable either. I think the ST stock block will handle 500 hp if you don't detonate, which is frankly easy no to do. Take some weight out of the car and work on your 60' no reason it can't run high 10's and drive it home.

Also this is a big pet peeve with me, don't take options off the table. Too many people do that and are forced to spend more money to overcome some built-in bias.
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top