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Discussion Starter · #681 · (Edited)
I better get him on making mine.
Definitely do it’s a nicely made piece

I came across this flange, it’s an eBay part so take that for what it means.


But it may be ok if the one I used is still out of stock, I think @mattdamon33 used it lol


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Discussion Starter · #682 · (Edited)


Doing some mock-up.

The two elbows are not 100% the same but they are very very close. The flange on the new one is on slightly tighter of a bend and is extended slightly lower.

I think it’s likely from the welds contracting as they cool.

Talking like a few mm. I don’t know if that will matter until it goes into the car, worst case I can just go back to the ATP elbow. But I think it will fit, it doesn’t seem to affect the location of the turbo very much. I think the DP will still match up, it just may require a little adjustment of the hanger and the compressor to be clocked slightly more clockwise.


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Looks great! I'd Imagine its close enough that you arent going to run into any issues with fitment.
 
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You have a decent flex section on your DP? I think it looks pretty good, but thanks for pointing out the bit of offset. That's quite important to know, even if it's manageable (you know, in case something else down the line didn't line up perfectly the 1st time... Not like I know that or anything :p ).
 

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Discussion Starter · #685 · (Edited)
You have a decent flex section on your DP? I think it looks pretty good, but thanks for pointing out the bit of offset. That's quite important to know, even if it's manageable (you know, in case something else down the line didn't line up perfectly the 1st time... Not like I know that or anything :p ).
my dp isn’t exactly flexible. But I think it’s gonna be alright, we will see.


What happened to you?


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What happened to you?
Eh, The usual 'growing pains' of fitting an aftermarket DP in that tiny space for the 1st time I guess. Things didn't line up the 1st time, or the 2nd time, lol. V-band clamps were a new introduction to me, haha. The MagnaFlow DP I have does have a flex section so it wasn't terrible. Took longer than it should have 😅
 

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Woah this is sweet.

Corksport walnut blasting tools makes it a very clean job if you ever need to clean valves again.

Super cool that you made your own elbow. Was that all from that other thread? I see this isn't that old.
Definitely a good move to take care of your headifold.
 
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Discussion Starter · #688 · (Edited)
Woah this is sweet.

Corksport walnut blasting tools makes it a very clean job if you ever need to clean valves again.

Super cool that you made your own elbow. Was that all from that other thread? I see this isn't that old.
Definitely a good move to take care of your headifold.
Thanks, I can't take too much credit though, I farmed out the assembly, this is way outside my abilities. I don't know how to weld lol.

and yeah thsi is all the same stuff referenced in deuce's thread. It was your original comment that spurred this decision, after learning about headifold cracks and the reduced spool and power from the ATP elbow I set out about having this made.

The head flange is an off the shelf part, as is the v-band flange. I talked to a couple guys before finding someone willing to make the part for me. I sent my ATP elbow in, he made a jig, then used it to make the elbow you see here. Its pretty damn good.

I dont plan on using an EWG, i'd honestly have to build the motor before that becomes an issue.


I will say though that all of this could easily have been solved by doing an EFR turbo, but hindsight is 20/20 lol. When you factor in the cost of an external BOV kit, and this elbow, I'm pretty close to the cost of an EFR kit. It was a dumb reason but i didn't want the downpipe that the EFR kit came with, because i wanted to stay catted. If i were to do it again, i'd do the EFR kit, and have a cat mounted after the downpipe in the catback.
 

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Yeah that welder did a damn good job. Whatever you paid him was worth it. Id bet it really helps with spool. Don’t have to waste energy developing a swirling steady state up in the cap. If people improve spool just with blankets, this definitely would have an effect.


Its nuts how much of a drag that ATP pipe is even when its capped. I wonder… what diameter is the inside of your pipe? And what are some overalls? Like approx bend radius. I’m interested to draft a rough CAD model for fluent. I’d like to do a side by side of your pipe vs ATP pipe full analysis. (Not gonna get done with it any time soon but in my spare time).

[edit] also could use the pipe wall thickness and flange thickness. In case i get ambitious and solve for what heat distribution looks like… which is a much bigger challenge because I’m sure at steady state its pretty similar. Big difference would be in transients where its heating up during WOT pulls. The less evenly it heats and expands, the more fatigue it puts on headifold flange. But transient solutions are humongous. Idt my home PC would be happy.
 
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Got this thing installed yet?
 

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Got this thing installed yet?
dimensions off the ATP elbow would work fine. Just realistic dimensions to make the scaling accurate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #692 ·
It’s not installed yet so I’ll get you some dimensions, I’m heading up to Vermont on Saturday so I’ll see about getting them either tonight or Sunday night.


I’m actually curious what your sims say. I didn’t do any real design on this just “keep the flanges in the same spot, delete the EWG port and do better matching to the head.”

@TurboGT I need to plan out my install, have to take a few days off to ensure o have enough buffer time in case there is an issue, I’m also going to take a few logs quickly in the first few days to ensure tim gets the boost dialed in. That kind of stuff is much easier to do midday on weekdays as the roads are much clearer.


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Okay so here is a breif run that I did.
Had good solution convergence with continutity having less than 0.00015 residuel error between iterations (which isnt mind blowingly accurate, but very accurate considering the short amount of time I let it run).
This was flowing 50 lb/min of air at 20 psi of gauge pressure (dashboard boost) and 1800°F. Heat loss is modeled as radiation leaving the surface of the volume through an 1/8" aluminum layer to ambient temperatures (70°F). No external convection was considered though natural convection would be present. A symmetry condition was used to halve computation time.
This is steady state fully developed turbulent flow. An appropriate turbulent model was used (k-ω) with a turbulent intensity of 30% and viscosity ratio of 10 (very rough guesses for the turbulent condition coming out of the headfold)

All in all, this is a very reasonable picture of what the flow inside the ATP elbow would look like after about 2-3 seconds of holding 50lb/min and 20 psi of boost.

392785
 

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gif is framey, but it barely fit on the forum upload limit
notice the little section of headifold I had to estimate to accurately model the inlet.
 

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gif is framey, but it barely fit on the forum upload limit
notice the little section of headifold I had to estimate to accurately model the inlet.
50 lbs min at 20 psi?

Should be 50 lbs min at 30 psi.

50lbs min is about 500hp. Which takes a bit more boost than 20.

How drasticall will a 50 percent increase in boost change the model?
 
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Thats so cool!

I wonder if @junits15 can compare logs to other members with 2867s and see how much faster the custom elbow spools over that atp elbow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #697 ·
50 lbs min at 20 psi?

Should be 50 lbs min at 30 psi.

50lbs min is about 500hp. Which takes a bit more boost than 20.

How drasticall will a 50 percent increase in boost change the model?
I think it’s the flow rate of just the elbow

@TurboGT that is exactly what I plan to do! I hope to god that it actually makes a noticeable difference

@Habriant40 that simulation looks really promising, I’m still on the hook for this elbow measurements for you, it’s at my parents place right now but I’ll get you the info.

I’d be curious how much of a difference there is just by removing the capped port


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50 lbs min at 20 psi?

Should be 50 lbs min at 30 psi.

50lbs min is about 500hp. Which takes a bit more boost than 20.

How drasticall will a 50 percent increase in boost change the model?
Definitely will change the model. The temperatures, heat fluxes, and smaller "bluer" areas of swirl will definitely change.
temps will increase, heat fluxes will change, and the smaller areas of swirl will likely be swirled harder and pushed further into the corners.
The big notable flow paths (the circulating portion up towards the cap, the impingent flow on the back wall, and the main stream forcing its way down past the swirling EWG area and towards the turbo) will still be there.

Those dominant flows will start forming for pretty much any turbulent flow passing through there. Less organized and swirly for lower energy flows, more streamlined and powerful for higher energy flows.

I just threw numbers in to see how it would do. Good model set up for steady state. Could let it run much longer for a highly accurate solution and not waste a bunch of electricity. A big thing with setting these models up is making sure they are reasonable before letting your computer burn coal for hours.

Is 50lb/min and 30 psi at 1800°F (EGT) a good mark to go by?
 

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Thats so cool!

I wonder if @junits15 can compare logs to other members with 2867s and see how much faster the custom elbow spools over that atp elbow.
I would rather use this method to tell the transient response benefits. I am not yet well versed in transient turbulent flows and there would be a long learning curved before I could spit out a GIF like that.

Real world data is so valuable in the Fluid world. EFD (experiemental fluid dynamics) is often regarded as more valuable than CFD (computational fluid dynamics). Its just tough to obtain EFD for things such as an airplane or skyscraper.
 
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I think it’s the flow rate of just the elbow

@TurboGT that is exactly what I plan to do! I hope to god that it actually makes a noticeable difference

@Habriant40 that simulation looks really promising, I’m still on the hook for this elbow measurements for you, it’s at my parents place right now but I’ll get you the info.

I’d be curious how much of a difference there is just by removing the capped port


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Sound good no problem.

Let me know what boost conditions you'd like to see and those final overalls then I'll do a side by side of the ATP vs yours.
I can tell you yours will look lightyears better than that hot swirling mess in the GIF.
 
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