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Go look at stratifieds dyno results as well as others on the forum for the GTX with stock fuel system and no additional WMI as OP said. You cannot run full e85 on stock fuel system, OP doesn't want to upgrade the fuel system. You cannot run 25psi to redline on 2860 without so much heat you need to boost octane rediculously, I have been in one on 93 in a 2860 focus st and you can feel it drop power after 6k rpm. And then for the gtx2867r well I have one in my car so rather than reading reviews and opinions I have actual experience driving both types. I have also driven a 2971r and I couldn't really notice the lag, I think it was maybe 200rpm more and it did have more top end.

If you read what OP wanted he wants something that will pull all the way to redline, not max out a 2860 and upgrade intercooler from the heat and WMI or vast amounts of ethanol.

Yes the 2867r can max out the stock fuel system, but only if ethanol is added. The fact still remains:

1. the 2867r will pull harder to redline than the 2860 and for regular 93 octane and up to e20 (on stock fuel) the 2867r will give OP more power at redline.
2. The 2860 will have slightly less lag 200-300rpm but will fall off up top due to smaller compressor wheel (see countless dyno graphs where people aren't running WMI or high ethanol content to counter the 60's inefficient compressor wheel for higher powers)
3. The stock fuel system will not do much over E20 for these bigger turbos which will see a result of around 370ish whp for the 2867r and 355ish for the 2860. I would suggest you drive the two in like for like circumstances before you quote other peoples opinions and experiences. By like for like I mean on similar setups and fuel like I did (93 for both). Just like you can run WMI for the 2860 you can also do the same for the 2867r and achieve higher numbers up high.

Note that the 2860 is a great turbo for low down response but it does fall off in power up top unless you are compensating with octane. The guy with the GTX2860 who I drove's car feels slightly more responsive than mine but again I want that top end and I have no regrets with the choice. It's all a trade off. There is a reason why the 2867r is the most common choice as people generally hate the stock turbo fall and are chasing the best top end/bottom end balance.
Gen I or Gen II GTX2860r? I haven't seen any dynos comparing the two, but I would imagine it's better being Gen II lol.
 

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Gen I or Gen II GTX2860r? I haven't seen any dynos comparing the two, but I would imagine it's better being Gen II lol.
Gen I at the moment but at the end of the day the Gen II wheels are nothing to write home about. The extra power from quoted figures are because they are assuming E85. The increase of around 1-2lbs/min for the wheel is not impressive.
 

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Gen I at the moment but at the end of the day the Gen II wheels are nothing to write home about. The extra power from quoted figures are because they are assuming E85. The increase of around 1-2lbs/min for the wheel is not impressive.
1-2 lbs per min is roughly 25hp. Depends, 475 hp sounds okay but 500 hp sounds better...
 

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1-2 lbs per min is roughly 25hp. Depends, 475 hp sounds okay but 500 hp sounds better...
It depends on many factors especially octane and as OP only wants to run 93 it definitely won't add to 25hp, more like 7 -14hp, maybe 20 at a push. The difference between my old 37lb/s min tune and 39lb/s min tune (pretty much same timing) was 9whp on vdyno.

I am on a 2867r with maxed out octane on 98RON (93.5 AKI) and it runs at 39lb/min at 24.5psi all the way to redline. Now we can't push timing any further without knock so this is 100% octane limited. You would think that 39lbs/min would mean around 390hp at crank and around 360ish hp at wheels but it is nowhere near that. Closer to 310 on mustang (312whp to be exact) and around 345whp on a dyno jet. The thing to note though is on 93 equivalent fuel I am running the 2867r at 39lbs/min at near 25psi. On the compressor map for the GTX2867r this means 2.7ish pressure ratio and going to 39lbs/min it runs at approximately 71% compressor efficiency (pretty much peak efficiency) while trying to run a 2860 wheel would be around 63%. This would mean it would run hotter than the 67r and therefore you will have to pull timing (assuming the same octane, which OP is talking about). So for the level that OP is wanting to run his car at the 67mm compressor wheel will be more efficient and get him the closest to his goal of 350whp on 93 octane.

500hp definitely sounds better, but I think that a lot of people (not you obviously) get so caught up in those figures and their expectations will fall short when the reality of their results set in. I mean anyone can throw octane in the mix and boost output but on our platform when getting up there to 400+whp you are dealing with other limiting factors such as flow restriction from our rediculous exhaust manifold.
 

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Shell V-Power 98: (98 RON + 85 MON) / 2 = 91.5 AKI
Shell V-Power Race 100: (100 RON + 89 MON) / 2 = 94.5 AKI

Straight from Shell
Straight from BP (the fuel that I use here in australia)

BP.PNG

So that gives exactly 93.5 AKI (98 RON +88 MON)/2 = 93.5 AKI

I am not one to say something off of a whim I like to do my research first. Not discrediting you as you are one of the few people who I see greatly contributing to our platform.

Edit: I know it says 99 RON but they have it as 98 RON on the fuel bowsers. My point was that even with better than 93 AKI octane fuel a true 350whp (not a happy dyno jet but an accurate dyno) will be hard enough on a 2867 let alone a 2860 where it will be out of it's efficiency
 

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39lbs/min just proves how octane limited the ST is.

312 whp is low, given the investment I'd make an effort to sort out the ignition advance and seriously consider water-methanol injection. You really should be around the norm for a GTX28xx on pump gas which is 330-350hp.
 

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All GT/GTX28xxx turbos are limited to about 350 hp by ignition advance on pump gas, it really doesn't matter if the air is a little hotter coming out of the 2863, that's not your main problem.

400+ hp easy with 50/50 water-methanol injection on a conservative tune, $400 investment, 50-70hp gain ROI = $6.70 per 1hp (Mean = 60 hp)

Evans Tuning recently did a Cobalt SS with EFR6758 upgrade


350 hp on 93 pump gas, 420 hp on 50/50 water-methanol

Pay attention to the fact that the way you approach tuning the Cobalt is the same as tuning the Focus ST/RS Ecoboost both cars are DI.
 

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Straight from BP (the fuel that I use here in australia)

View attachment 280162

So that gives exactly 93.5 AKI (98 RON +88 MON)/2 = 93.5 AKI

I am not one to say something off of a whim I like to do my research first. Not discrediting you as you are one of the few people who I see greatly contributing to our platform.

Edit: I know it says 99 RON but they have it as 98 RON on the fuel bowsers. My point was that even with better than 93 AKI octane fuel a true 350whp (not a happy dyno jet but an accurate dyno) will be hard enough on a 2867 let alone a 2860 where it will be out of it's efficiency
Good to see BP Australia is better than Shell Australia. It seems the BP is ethanol free also

BP ULTIMATE
BP Ultimate is the highest octane retail fuel that BP has on the market. It has an octane
rating between 98 and 100 and does not contain ethanol. It is suitable for all cars but pre
1986 vehicles designed for leaded fuel may need to add an additive to prevent valve seat
recession if they do not have hardened valve seats. BP Ultimate also contains a high dose of
additive to protect the fuel system and to remove deposits that foul intake valves and the
combustion chamber causing poor combustion and knock.
 

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Good to see BP Australia is better than Shell Australia. It seems the BP is ethanol free also

BP ULTIMATE
BP Ultimate is the highest octane retail fuel that BP has on the market. It has an octane
rating between 98 and 100 and does not contain ethanol. It is suitable for all cars but pre
1986 vehicles designed for leaded fuel may need to add an additive to prevent valve seat
recession if they do not have hardened valve seats. BP Ultimate also contains a high dose of
additive to protect the fuel system and to remove deposits that foul intake valves and the
combustion chamber causing poor combustion and knock.
oh yeah I have found BP to be better when taking logs. I couldn't get my OAR on this tune below -0.54 whereas with BP ultimate it's permanently at -1.00.

Also we don't have shell racing anymore (100 RON) :( that was good while it lasted but the demand was so small they pulled it off the market.
 

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oh yeah I have found BP to be better when taking logs. I couldn't get my OAR on this tune below -0.54 whereas with BP ultimate it's permanently at -1.00.

Also we don't have shell racing anymore (100 RON) :( that was good while it lasted but the demand was so small they pulled it off the market.
That sucks, the shell was 94.5 AKI. I wish we still had good fuel in the US like you guys do.
 

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This is a long shot, but any chance these "broken images" can be uploaded again? This is a great article but I can't view the images since they're 3 years old now.
 

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Hey guys, bought a gtx2867 .64 and am waiting to put it in until mid summer. I need to buy the EWG kit from stratified as the IWG is welded shut from the previous owner. I want thank the forum member here who gave me a wicked deal! I am brand new to the big turbo world. I am have done all my mods myself except my exhaust work. I am still on stock charge pipes. Do I need to upgrade both hot and cold side? or just the hot side? I have a turbosmart 50/50 bov. Do I need to actually move it onto the charge pipe? If so what is the cheapest charge pipe option? I am looking to get the turbo installed and wrap my car this season so trying to save where I can. I member in another group who runs the same turbo only upgraded the hotside pipe to place the bov is there, other side stock. Is this an option or will there be problems? My complete mod list in my sig.

Thanks for any input guys!
 

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Hey guys, bought a gtx2867 .64 and am waiting to put it in until mid summer. I need to buy the EWG kit from stratified as the IWG is welded shut from the previous owner. I want thank the forum member here who gave me a wicked deal! I am brand new to the big turbo world. I am have done all my mods myself except my exhaust work. I am still on stock charge pipes. Do I need to upgrade both hot and cold side? or just the hot side? I have a turbosmart 50/50 bov. Do I need to actually move it onto the charge pipe? If so what is the cheapest charge pipe option? I am looking to get the turbo installed and wrap my car this season so trying to save where I can. I member in another group who runs the same turbo only upgraded the hotside pipe to place the bov is there, other side stock. Is this an option or will there be problems? My complete mod list in my sig.

Thanks for any input guys!
GTX turbos don't have mounting for BOVs directly on the turbo, you will have to move the BOV onto the charge pipes. Honestly it can be hot or cold side, both have been done. As far as the cheapest option, buy an ATP elbow flange and a BOV, then you can decide where you want to mount it going into or out of the FMIC. Not necessary to go all aftermarket charge pipes, but it would definitely help.
 

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GTX turbos don't have mounting for BOVs directly on the turbo, you will have to move the BOV onto the charge pipes. Honestly it can be hot or cold side, both have been done. As far as the cheapest option, buy an ATP elbow flange and a BOV, then you can decide where you want to mount it going into or out of the FMIC. Not necessary to go all aftermarket charge pipes, but it would definitely help.
Thanks for the reply, can I use my turbosmart bov set to 100% VTA welded to a charge pipe?

Thank you.
 

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What is the reason for tial or HKS?
 
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