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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just the facts first:

My car (2014 ST3) is currently at the dealership with total transmission/clutch failure. Car broke down on the side of the road and couldn't go in gear, with an insane grinding sound when the engine was running. The service dept said the transmission mount/rmm broke and caused a bolt to enter the transmission. They said the mechanic thinks the transmission will be fine once they get the bolt out and replace the RMM. The service writer/counter person said it looked like someone had messed with the RMM before, so she heavily implied it wasn't a factory/dealership error.

I purchased the car at a dealership in Georgia (currently in NC). I checked out the motor mount a little while ago, and it was still the factory mount (FoMoCo label and everything). I was actually planning on upgrading to a Cobb RMM in the near future, though. Now some questions:

1. How does a mount failure introduce a bolt into the transmission?
2. What's the likelyhood of the transmission being fine if a bolt clanged around in there for a quarter mile?
3. If i call the dealership I bought it from with my VIN, could they tell me if the RMM TSB was an issue? Or if they did any work on it that would be warrantied?
4. If the transmission is shot, since i'm still under 60k miles, they said it wouldn't be covered since it was the "mount" that failed. How do I fight that considering it was a factory part and it failed so suddenly? They're already trying to hit me for $450+ with a new RMM and "bolt removal".
 

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THere IS no 'bolt' in the transmission.
The mount breaking 'hard' might screw up the shift cables enough to cause the gears to clash some.
So IMO the dealer staff are totally full of ****, and have no idea WTF they are talking about.

Now this may have bent a shift fork, but not too likely.
It may damage the shift tower inside the transmission the forks ride on...
Hard to say.
Best way to find out is to make certain to replace the mount first. Check the shift cables alignment.
AND THEN see if it is making Hell noises.
I bet not. And the transmission will be FINE.


Transmission are REALLY tough. (except for the shifter forks, tower, and synchros.) The tranny may have a few rough feeling shifts for a little while, but should be fine.
(I years and years ago tried to shift into REVERSE.. at 70mph.. Several times trying hard to push that lever over.. wondering WTF was wrong??
Until it dawned on me that was reverse.. and good thing I failed..
All that happened was reverse had some slight harshness getting into gear ever after. LOL
 

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THere IS no 'bolt' in the transmission.
The mount breaking 'hard' might screw up the shift cables enough to cause the gears to clash some.
So IMO the dealer staff are totally full of ****, and have no idea WTF they are talking about.

Now this may have bent a shift fork, but not too likely.
It may damage the shift tower inside the transmission the forks ride on...
Hard to say.
Best way to find out is to make certain to replace the mount first. Check the shift cables alignment.
AND THEN see if it is making Hell noises.
I bet not. And the transmission will be FINE.


Transmission are REALLY tough. (except for the shifter forks, tower, and synchros.) The tranny may have a few rough feeling shifts for a little while, but should be fine.
(I years and years ago tried to shift into REVERSE.. at 70mph.. Several times trying hard to push that lever over.. wondering WTF was wrong??
Until it dawned on me that was reverse.. and good thing I failed..
All that happened was reverse had some slight harshness getting into gear ever after. LOL
Exactly what I was thinking, there is NO WAY a RMM breaking made a bolt enter the trans case. They are nuts, and full of ****. A stock RMM is only 160 bucks max. Just buy one and do the work yourself, or have it towed to the dealer you bought it from, a lot less likely they will want to screw you because they want your repeat business, the dealer you are at is upset you didnt buy the vehicle from them and is jerking you around to get some money out of you instead of dealing with the warranty system. Greed at its best. My local dealer is the exact same way with my car, they say my car is "modded" and dont want to touch it because I have mud flaps and a resonator delete. Bull****...Utter Bull****.

E.E. is spot on, your linkages are being pulled on from the transmission hanging down out of its mount, which is why it wont go into gear, I am actually surprised it didnt yank your shifter into the third position from falling forward off the mount. But I wouldnt let that dealer touch your car, who knows what other damage they will "find".

Not trying to fear monger... I just smell scam a mile away..."you're out of warranty because it 'looks' modified"....sounds all too familiar.....I bought my car from a dealer that sells fully modified ST's and RS's You can get a car that has full borla/mountune/ford racing (your choice) exhaust, intake, short throw shifter, symposer delete, pro rally wheels and tires, mud flaps, bride, sparco, recaro seats, 5 point harness and rear seat cage, full mountune suspension, custom wraps, the list goes on and on, and they cover it ALL under Ford/Mountune warranty. But I digress.... Dealers like mine are extremely rare.... But I would still take it back to the original dealer, they will take better care of you... Just my $0.02.

5dmc1
 

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I actually got up here in the middle of the night to say more!
One point may be that the person you spoke to is a 'service advisor'
who actually knows ZERO about how the transmission is in the car or how it works...
So he is just making up stuff to 'match' your description of the problem.
So he is a guy/gal spouting BS trying to sound smart!
The notion of the 'bolt in the transmission' is so stupid it is almost hilarious, if not just so pathetic

One other point is maybe your RMM just LOST A BOLT.
(So all it needs is a new bolt.) DID you actually get to SEE the car up on a lift???
I know you said you looked at the RMM earlier, but here is a description for others reading this...
The RMM us a thick "U" shaped metal part. with a rubber and metal doughnut in the "U". The doughnut has a vertical insert for a bolt.
The "U" fit into a box on the frame. The bolt in the rubber goes into the bottom of the box, vertically up into the frame.
The front of the "U" sticking out has a set of holes for another big bolt crosswise.
This locks the "U" to the small frame attached to the bottom back of the engine by four smaller bolts. This cross bolt also may be what fell out.
Both bolts are like a few bucks each. (and are special.. you need the exact part no generic!)
I think they are supposed to be self locking.. This may be why they think you took them off before? (Cuz now they unscrewed?)
I think, but just cannot remember if they are not supposed to be reused??
It is very unlikely the four bolts holding the frame came off the transmission housing.

The noise you heard may be the pulley?? hitting something?

Added: One possible error in communication might be the "bolt 'in' the transmission"
This might??? refer to a bolt external on the transmission CASE.
Easy to turn the 'bolt in the transmission' (case) into a bolt INSIDE the transmission LOL
Just a mistake in how the sense is conveyed?
SO maybe the service writer is not a total jackass, just did not understand the writing.
If the bolts holding the RMM frame to the case came off. the last one certainly could have sheared off.
Leaving a bolt 'ON' the case' to 'be removed' .

Anyway, Sad to hear you are stuck in some other place with your car.
I would absolutely insist on seeing the RMM area up on a lift BEFORE authorizing the work.
You can then SEE what part of the RMM came apart.
Hope it is a nice easy fix.
Good luck!

More added.. Yeah, I am thinking some more about this...
Also: the shift cables may? be damaged.
If the transmission will not shift. it may be the cables are broken at the transmission.
(or they are just so out of alignment?)
At the inside cabin end, the cables are strong. But at the transmission end they are flimsy as Hell.
The plastic clips at that end may have broken. and thus the cables need to be replaced
Also thought on the screech? Maybe the RMM to engine frame (the horizontal bolt to the four transmission case bolts part) if it came OFF the engine and was dropping down.. It could be what the noise was, as it was dragging on the ground and vibrating up through the frame of the car?

The original thought of the idea of them saying a bolt was "IN" the transmission made it seem like rip-off city.
But the error on language may be all that was... So hope is it is all an honest error. and the RMM can be fixed. and all will be well. (with maybe/maybe not new shift cables?)
One more reason to see the underside yourself is to see if the RMM small front frame part is damaged.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Just buy one and do the work yourself, or have it towed to the dealer you bought it from, a lot less likely they will want to screw you because they want your repeat business
The dealer I got it from is about 800 miles away in another state. I think the tow bill will far outweigh the repair bill, lol. I actually LITERALLY bought the Cobb RMM the same day the factory one failed on me, but I haven't received it in the mail yet. I could easily install it myself, but verifying the transmission components haven't been damaged (forks, towers, synchros, whatever) is beyond my experience.

E.E. is spot on, your linkages are being pulled on from the transmission hanging down out of its mount, which is why it wont go into gear, I am actually surprised it didnt yank your shifter into the third position from falling forward off the mount.
Actually, the stick did dance around a bit before I pulled it to the side of the road. It kept kicking itself forward out of 4th.

E.E., thanks for your input as well. I going to have a sit-down (hopefully) conversation with the Service Manager today and go over exactly what's going on. I live 50 minutes away from the dealership that has my car, as it's close to where I work (I run an Advance Auto Parts, ironic enough). I haven't seen the car on the lift myself, as I've had a 19 month old during this entire ideal, so I couldn't just hang around places and wait to see what's going on. It's a perfect storm of sh**. If I was single and 10 minutes away from the dealership, yeah my eyes would've been in the shop the entire time. Now I'm going to talk to the service manager directly, parts guy to parts guy, to make sure they don't try to pull some fast-sh** on me.
 

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Tell them you want to see this bolt....and where it came from.

You might find the story changes when you want to see the evidence. Oh and the broken mount. I rarely take my car to a shop but I always see or take my old parts.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

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Even if this ridiculous story was even feasible, there's no way the trans would be fine, or even have fluid in it. So it would be toast.

Automotive industry is so crooked.
 

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I'm thinking the only way a bolt could be "in the transmission" is the bolt being launched like a bullet and penetrating the trans case(obviously ridiculous to even suppose), which like Duece said would mean no fluid and would not be fine after they "get the bolt out".

Wtf???
 

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I actually got up here in the middle of the night to say more!
One point may be that the person you spoke to is a 'service advisor'
who actually knows ZERO about how the transmission is in the car or how it works...
So he is just making up stuff to 'match' your description of the problem.
So he is a guy/gal spouting BS trying to sound smart!

Some of us silly BS spouting service advisors were actually technicians before we got tired of wrenching... just saying. Not all of us have no idea what we are talking about. In fact, a lot of us actually know exactly what we are talking about, almost 100% of the time more than the customer.

But i will agree something sounds shady and uninformed in this scenario.

To the OP, as far as the powertrain warranty goes, technically a powertrain part that is damaged due to the failure of a non-powertrain part is not covered. That being said, motor mounts are usually considered powertrain parts, as well as axles, wheel bearings etc. But I do not work for ford so i can't vouch for that.
 

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Even if this ridiculous story was even feasible, there's no way the trans would be fine, or even have fluid in it. So it would be toast.

Automotive industry is so crooked.
Yeah, if there was a bolt inside it would punch a hole through something and cause a leak of fluids, chew up the gears, it would be toast, but there is no way a bolt entered that case. They are full of sh*t.

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk
 

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Just the facts first:

My car (2014 ST3) is currently at the dealership with total transmission/clutch failure. Car broke down on the side of the road and couldn't go in gear, with an insane grinding sound when the engine was running. The service dept said the transmission mount/rmm broke and caused a bolt to enter the transmission. They said the mechanic thinks the transmission will be fine once they get the bolt out and replace the RMM. The service writer/counter person said it looked like someone had messed with the RMM before, so she heavily implied it wasn't a factory/dealership error.

I purchased the car at a dealership in Georgia (currently in NC). I checked out the motor mount a little while ago, and it was still the factory mount (FoMoCo label and everything). I was actually planning on upgrading to a Cobb RMM in the near future, though. Now some questions:

1. How does a mount failure introduce a bolt into the transmission?
2. What's the likelyhood of the transmission being fine if a bolt clanged around in there for a quarter mile?
3. If i call the dealership I bought it from with my VIN, could they tell me if the RMM TSB was an issue? Or if they did any work on it that would be warrantied?
4. If the transmission is shot, since i'm still under 60k miles, they said it wouldn't be covered since it was the "mount" that failed. How do I fight that considering it was a factory part and it failed so suddenly? They're already trying to hit me for $450+ with a new RMM and "bolt removal".

Something isn't right about this story.

So are they saying it was the RMM or the transmision mount? Two completely different mounts two different locations.

Is the bolt literally inside the transmission? Or are they saying a longer bolt was threaded into a small hole and hitting moving parts in the transmission?

Either the tech is a young lube tech guessing random causes or the writer is full of crap. If they're factory mounts it should be covered.

With a 450 price it sounds like your transmission doesnt have to be removed or disassembled so are you sure you didnt try to install the mount and use a wrong bolt somewhere?

Whole story makes no sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Something isn't right about this story.

So are they saying it was the RMM or the transmision mount? Two completely different mounts two different locations.

Is the bolt literally inside the transmission? Or are they saying a longer bolt was threaded into a small hole and hitting moving parts in the transmission?

Either the tech is a young lube tech guessing random causes or the writer is full of crap. If they're factory mounts it should be covered.

With a 450 price it sounds like your transmission doesnt have to be removed or disassembled so are you sure you didnt try to install the mount and use a wrong bolt somewhere?

Whole story makes no sense.
I've gotten literally zero new information since the day it was brought in. They also said something about the transmission dragging on the ground the second day it was there, and they need to replace the mount to "get the transmission off the ground" before they can do any diagnostics on the transmission itself. The car is still in the same place it was towed to (I rode with the tow truck, and have been back twice since the car was parked), and the skid plate is still on the bottom of the car, and there is nothing hanging down out of the vehicle. My intake box and tube are currently in the trunk, so someone has at least looked at it from the topside, but no idea where they're getting the other information from relating to the transmission.

I still haven't talked to the service manager about any of this, but I have emailed him, and he simply gave me a "sorry I'm out of town" auto-response. I'm sure as hell not going to authorize any work outside of any kind of diagnostic stuff without seeing the damage myself. I'm going to be calling back later this afternoon to speak to the service manager and figure out just what the hell is going on. I don't want to accuse the service advisor/counter-person of anything wrong, I really just want to frame it as a miscommunication error and stay cordial. If he starts feeding me sh** though, I'll have to figure out another avenue, since I don't have anything close to the tools and equipment needed for transmission work. The mount I can do myself, but I'd still have to get the car somewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Finally talked to the Service Manager. I don't know if this is actually what happened or he's just making something up to, but he said the mount had been messed around with (I hadn't touched it, and the dealership I got it from, used, had no record of the mount being touched), and someone had crossthreaded the bolts. So the bolts are sheared off and stuck in the transmission case. I wonder if the person who sold the car to the dealership installed an aftermarket mount then re-installed the factory mount before selling it. If so, and he f***** something up, not sure how I'm going to play that to my advantage cost/warranty wise. But anyway, THAT'S what they meant by "bolts in the transmission", and apparently the service advisor thought it was a bolt literally in the transmission causing an issue.

This makes me feel a little bit better that the transmission itself will be fine, but there's going to be an issue taking care of the bolts stuck in the housing. Like I said before, I literally bought a Cobb mount right before this sh** went down, so I'm going to have them install that one instead of the factory one to save me some cash and upgrade the mount anyway.

Now it comes down to whether or not they can save the mounting holes from the "crossthreaded" bolts. This leads me to wonder, if Ford can't do it, am I better off taking it to a different shop to have them repair the threads?
 

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Pay them and then run away !

JK

This is what it should will take to fix or course of action an experienced mechanic might do.

Extract the cross threaded bolt, sight unseen it might be and easy or it might require some skill.

Easy drill out, helicoil the damaged hole.

Tack weld a bolt onto the old bolt if there is space ... back out the bolt very gingerly --- NOT likely the case

Drill out the pocket with an over sized drill .. helicoil ---- most likely this will be the fix

helicoil,helicoil insert,helicoil inserts,helicoil kit, helicoil tap, heli-coil, helicoil tools


Garage mechanic .... drill and JB weld! <--------- this is a joke, dont do this REALLY


What you have got is steel Vs aluminum, steel wins almost 99% of the time.

If I were you I would be asking How they intend to fix or take it to someone who does machine work "Machinist" and likes challenges.

The dealer might even tell you the tranny needs to come out to preform this repair. Drilling while on the back and or above the head sucks but can be done ...

Keep us posted

T




Finally talked to the Service Manager. I don't know if this is actually what happened or he's just making something up to, but he said the mount had been messed around with (I hadn't touched it, and the dealership I got it from, used, had no record of the mount being touched), and someone had crossthreaded the bolts. So the bolts are sheared off and stuck in the transmission case. I wonder if the person who sold the car to the dealership installed an aftermarket mount then re-installed the factory mount before selling it. If so, and he f***** something up, not sure how I'm going to play that to my advantage cost/warranty wise. But anyway, THAT'S what they meant by "bolts in the transmission", and apparently the service advisor thought it was a bolt literally in the transmission causing an issue.

This makes me feel a little bit better that the transmission itself will be fine, but there's going to be an issue taking care of the bolts stuck in the housing. Like I said before, I literally bought a Cobb mount right before this sh** went down, so I'm going to have them install that one instead of the factory one to save me some cash and upgrade the mount anyway.

Now it comes down to whether or not they can save the mounting holes from the "crossthreaded" bolts. This leads me to wonder, if Ford can't do it, am I better off taking it to a different shop to have them repair the threads?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Pay them and then run away !

JK

This is what it should will take to fix or course of action an experienced mechanic might do.

Extract the cross threaded bolt, sight unseen it might be and easy or it might require some skill.

Easy drill out, helicoil the damaged hole.

Tack weld a bolt onto the old bolt if there is space ... back out the bolt very gingerly --- NOT likely the case

Drill out the pocket with an over sized drill .. helicoil ---- most likely this will be the fix

helicoil,helicoil insert,helicoil inserts,helicoil kit, helicoil tap, heli-coil, helicoil tools


Garage mechanic .... drill and JB weld! <--------- this is a joke, dont do this REALLY


What you have got is steel Vs aluminum, steel wins almost 99% of the time.

If I were you I would be asking How they intend to fix or take it to someone who does machine work "Machinist" and likes challenges.

The dealer might even tell you the tranny needs to come out to preform this repair. Drilling while on the back and or above the head sucks but can be done ...

Keep us posted

T
The service manager already told me their goal is to drill out the old and tap a new thread, and a helicoil would be their last resort. I honestly don't know how comfortable I'd feel with a helicoil used for a transmission mount, depending on how many they need to replace. Again, I haven't seen the damage myself, but I'm hoping to tomorrow. I don't know how many bolts are sheared/broken, and don't know which positions their in. I'm assuming they're on the bracket itself and not the mount.
 

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When you said the price you were quoted i knew there was some miscommunication somewhere in the chain lol. You'd be looking at a lot more than that just to remove the transmission. Not that big of a deal even if they do need to use a heli-coil. I work in a Heavy duty truck shop and drill and tap/ heli-coil stuff happens ALL THE TIME. You've got nothing to worry about. If it really bothers you just check it every once in a while to make sure it isn't loose.
 

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yes 20 years of making parts and fabrication and fixing others mistakes Helicoils work well for this situation, you dont want to loose wall thickness. Re taps are not the way to go, IMO.

I am assuming these went bad, might be able to set a drill guide and then chase with a bottom tap ?

holes.jpg



When you said the price you were quoted i knew there was some miscommunication somewhere in the chain lol. You'd be looking at a lot more than that just to remove the transmission. Not that big of a deal even if they do need to use a heli-coil. I work in a Heavy duty truck shop and drill and tap/ heli-coil stuff happens ALL THE TIME. You've got nothing to worry about. If it really bothers you just check it every once in a while to make sure it isn't loose.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for the input guys. You're making me feel a bit better about the helicoils. Now I hope the dealership doesn't say "oh we can't fix it" and tries to go for a new transmission...
 
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