[zylious]

Honestly I'm fairly inexperienced with working on cars (also new to this forum) and wanted to find out the basics of upgrading to a big turbo. I know this is probably a pretty common question (sorry) but I'm trying to find all the information in one place. I have a 2016 ST1 with about 118,000 miles, regular maintenance has always been done, and synthetic oil changed after around 5,000 miles. Would it be a stupid decision to attempt to go big turbo after having this many miles on the car? The only mods done are a turbosmart blow off valve (added myself) and a muffler delete (which to my knowledge do not have an increase on performance). If I decided to go the big turbo route I would most likely get the BNR71, from what I've seen it still spools up pretty close to stock but has a larger powerband (if there are better options I would definitely take those into account, high end power isn't really what I'm going for, but it seems like the best option) and I plan on running it on 91 octane (highest octane gas in my area). What kind of mods would I need to support this? Obviously I would need a tune (JSTuned has an online tune that comes with the turbo, not sure if this would be fine to run instead of getting dynoed) probably an intercooler also. I really only want to get around 320-350 whp and would rather not have to upgrade the block or clutch (from what I understand you really only need to do that if you are going above 400hp), and I do plan on upgrading at least the suspension in the future. The cost of the turbo with a tune is $1,860, what would the price be all together (rough estimate) to get the turbo (and supporting mods) put in by a shop? As I said I'm pretty inexperienced with working on cars and don't want to risk messing up my car. Also would adding a big turbo significantly decrease the reliability? I'm debating on whether to make my daily/only car more powerful or getting a miata or honda project to learn how to work on cars and for (somewhat) cheap fun.

 

[colewhateva]

You're gonna need an intercooler for sure. The stock car needs an intercooler lol
An accessport or comparable tuning device.
You'll need an external BOV like a TIAL or HKS and a place to mount it, like an intercooler charge pipe with a matching flange mounted on it or an intercooler with the chosen flange.

For your stated goals you will be under the fuel limitation, so you won't need to upgrade there. You can add port auxillary fuel or a bigger high pressure fuel pump (hpfp) and bigger injectors later, if you want to push further. The BNR71 has some headroom in that regard.

You could also choose the BNR67 which will serve your goals, it doesn't have the top end potential of the BNR71 but if you're not adding extra fueling, then you will get quicker spool and won't be missing any power.

That all being said, modifying your daily is always a dangerous game if you rely on it for transportation. Most guys will tell you to 'send it' but they won't be driving you to work if something happens.



You really gotta address the intercooler though lol. Stock one is garbage.

 

[Sobro]

First you need to do an engine health check. Do a compression test and run an OBD scan, and if it passes then install the intercooler of your choice. After that start looking at turbo options. I don't think it's a mistake to go Big Turbo at your mileage if the engine checks out OK.

You could even improve your fuel efficiency with a BT.

 

[Phil449]

There are tons of good threads to go through so I would definitely say go read those to start.

Items you need:
FMIC
Charge pipes (I did depo and had the Tial flange welded onto the hot side, much cheaper and easier maintenance than most options on the market)
BOV either tial or HKS
Symposer delete with vacuum port
High flow air filter and recommend spectre air box mod

For 350whp or less my opinion is the GTX 2860 Gen II is the best (although I’m biased lol). IMHO, the BNR 71 is too big if you’re not doing aux fuel.. go BNR 67 if on a budget. you’re just taking longer to spool with the 71 and 67 to a degree compared to the 2860 which is spooled to over 20lb by 2800rpm).

 

[TurboGT]

What Phil said^

However, since you rely on this car as a daily, I only recommend doing these items if you are comfortable doing them yourself. Paying a shop to do the work does you no good if you are 200 miles from home and have an issue. If you have installed all this stuff yourself, then you will be familiar with how everything goes together, and may be able to to fix the car in a parking lot and get back home.

Also using the "out of town" example,when you modify things like this and take the car to any XYZ repair shop because you broke down, they may not be able to have a repair solution for you because they aren't familiar with what aftermarket parts to replace (and where to buy them) in the event of a failure, and you can't help them because you don't know either.

 

[Phil449]

What Phil said^

However, since you rely on this car as a daily, I only recommend doing these items if you are comfortable doing them yourself. Paying a shop to do the work does you no good if you are 200 miles from home and have an issue. If you have installed all this stuff yourself, then you will be familiar with how everything goes together, and may be able to to fix the car in a parking lot and get back home.

Also using the "out of town" example,when you modify things like this and take the car to any XYZ repair shop because you broke down, they may not be able to have a repair solution for you because they aren't familiar with what aftermarket parts to replace (and where to buy them) in the event of a failure, and you can't help them because you don't know either.

I honestly didn’t consider this, but it’s priceless advice. I had done a good bit of general wrenching prior to the ST, but had never done ANYTHING with a turbo setup. It’s honestly not too complicated and all the knowledge you need is on this forum. Highly recommend DIY and learning every part for yourself (it really is a simple system).

 

[MrBen522]

If you're basically stock I would suggest doing an intercooler and a tune to see if that power level satisfies. It's a world of difference from stock

 

[rob99rt]

If you're basically stock I would suggest doing an intercooler and a tune to see if that power level satisfies. It's a world of difference from stock

While this is true, and I agree that a tune on the stock turbo MAY satisfy the need for more power, the stock turbo will eventually fail at the wga bushing and it'll start not holding boost. It may start going downhill at 50k like mine did or it may go until 100k... You just won't know. The fix is going to be pulling the turbo and either installing another stock one or going with a larger unit.

A 2860 or 2867 will benefit the car in several ways that the stock turbo simply can't. My 2867, for instance, makes it virtually impossible to LSPI the motor unless you REALLY try (we had a guy here do it recently with brake boosting). It also has much less drive pressure than the stock turbo, which makes it easier on the motor. The torque curve gets moved to the right, so while you won't have the immediate punch of the torque down low, it'll overall increase the torque peak some and you'll have more power under the curve thanks to another 100 HP or so at the top of the rev range. Having a motor that pulls hard to redline is a game changer.

The car with a larger turbo has a much more linear power curve compared to stock, so it's honestly easier to drive... No more issues with power falling off a cliff past 5000 rpm, or barely pushing on the gas at a lower rpm and having the turbo give you WAY too much boost.

To turboGT's point above, if you're going to do the wrenching for a turbo swap then you'll be in a better position to get it fixed if you blow a charge pipe or something that can be fixed beside the road. If this is your only vehicle, though, and you can't really afford to have it down, then a turbo swap may not be in the cards for you right now, especially if you're not going to be doing the swap yourself.

Fwiw, a turbo swap isn't some extremely difficult endeavor that only those with mythical powers can pull off. It's a pain, for sure, but me and my 15 year old had it done in about 12 hours of wrenching and we took our time and had several breaks (especially since the garage temp was in the 30s). It's been running strong for a little over 15k miles at this point, too.

 

[junits15]

Honestly I'm fairly inexperienced with working on cars (also new to this forum) and wanted to find out the basics of upgrading to a big turbo. I know this is probably a pretty common question (sorry) but I'm trying to find all the information in one place. I have a 2016 ST1 with about 118,000 miles, regular maintenance has always been done, and synthetic oil changed after around 5,000 miles. Would it be a stupid decision to attempt to go big turbo after having this many miles on the car? The only mods done are a turbosmart blow off valve (added myself) and a muffler delete (which to my knowledge do not have an increase on performance). If I decided to go the big turbo route I would most likely get the BNR71, from what I've seen it still spools up pretty close to stock but has a larger powerband (if there are better options I would definitely take those into account, high end power isn't really what I'm going for, but it seems like the best option) and I plan on running it on 91 octane (highest octane gas in my area). What kind of mods would I need to support this? Obviously I would need a tune (JSTuned has an online tune that comes with the turbo, not sure if this would be fine to run instead of getting dynoed) probably an intercooler also. I really only want to get around 320-350 whp and would rather not have to upgrade the block or clutch (from what I understand you really only need to do that if you are going above 400hp), and I do plan on upgrading at least the suspension in the future. The cost of the turbo with a tune is $1,860, what would the price be all together (rough estimate) to get the turbo (and supporting mods) put in by a shop? As I said I'm pretty inexperienced with working on cars and don't want to risk messing up my car. Also would adding a big turbo significantly decrease the reliability? I'm debating on whether to make my daily/only car more powerful or getting a miata or honda project to learn how to work on cars and for (somewhat) cheap fun.

If you really don't want top end power I would suggest a different turbo than the BNR71.

With that said I think you'll find that you actually do want high end power

 

[rob99rt]

If you really don't want top end power I would suggest a different turbo than the BNR71.

With that said I think you'll find that you actually do want high end power

Yeah, I didn't realize just how bad the stock turbo was on top end until I got the 2867 installed. I mean, I knew it didn't pull well and kind of fell flat, but I didn't realize it was THAT bad until I had something to compare it against.

 

[Ujiro]

Is a down pipe necessary if going BT but not exceeding stock fueling capability?

 

[Machspeed]

I did all this, with the help of TurboGT (Kyle), to my ST a few months back and my car has 170k on it. Those miles are primarily highway miles and the car was always well maintained. Moreover, I'm not heavily footed.

I did everything myself and used Alan of Edge Autosports for my tune. I went with a Garrett 2867R Gen II Turbo and a catted downpipe, the latter being given to me. I was also given a Cobb Access Port. I purchased a new ESP intercooler, which I think was a great bargain. BTW, you DO NOT want to stay with the stock IC. Frankly, I should have changed that out a long time ago. I purchased new hot side and cold side piping, adding a Tial blow off valve to the hot side. I also went with an upgraded engine mount. I replaced the passenger side engine mount (stock unit), as I discovered it was blown. I also replaced both heater hoses and put a new trans axel seal on the passenger side. The heater hoses are good for maybe 100k and both of mine were leaking. I had a Ford cold air intake previously, kept the stock box, and purchased an RS intake tube from a member. My exhaust is run through the stock system, as I don't want the noise and I wanted a stocker look. New plugs, oil, trans lubrication, coolant and perhaps a few other items cost me around $4500. I'm running around 350 HP on 91 pump gas and the car is now pure joy to drive!

Hope this gives you some insight into what you're getting in to financially. Also, know that I've been wrenching on muscle cars all my life but never anything turbo related. Recommend you understand how a turbo works along with all the nomenclature. There is much to learn, but I had good help from members, the forum and YouTube. Feel free to contact me if you have questions. I suspect some of our moderators are wore out answering the same old questions.....LOL!

Good luck!

 

[zylious]

I did all this, with the help of TurboGT (Kyle), to my ST a few months back and my car has 170k on it. Those miles are primarily highway miles and the car was always well maintained. Moreover, I'm not heavily footed.

I did everything myself and used Alan of Edge Autosports for my tune. I went with a Garrett 2867R Gen II Turbo and a catted downpipe, the latter being given to me. I was also given a Cobb Access Port. I purchased a new ESP intercooler, which I think was a great bargain. BTW, you DO NOT want to stay with the stock IC. Frankly, I should have changed that out a long time ago. I purchased new hot side and cold side piping, adding a Tial blow off valve to the hot side. I also went with an upgraded engine mount. I replaced the passenger side engine mount (stock unit), as I discovered it was blown. I also replaced both heater hoses and put a new trans axel seal on the passenger side. The heater hoses are good for maybe 100k and both of mine were leaking. I had a Ford cold air intake previously, kept the stock box, and purchased an RS intake tube from a member. My exhaust is run through the stock system, as I don't want the noise and I wanted a stocker look. New plugs, oil, trans lubrication, coolant and perhaps a few other items cost me around $4500. I'm running around 350 HP on 91 pump gas and the car is now pure joy to drive!

Hope this gives you some insight into what you're getting in to financially. Also, know that I've been wrenching on muscle cars all my life but never anything turbo related. Recommend you understand how a turbo works along with all the nomenclature. There is much to learn, but I had good help from members, the forum and YouTube. Feel free to contact me if you have questions. I suspect some of our moderators are wore out answering the same old questions.....LOL!

Good luck!

Thanks you so much! I think I'm going to follow the advice of what some other members said and first get an intercooler and a tune (while I continue to do more research and learn how to work on my car better) and see how I like it at that point, since those are a necessity I can always upgrade more later.

 

[TurboGT]

Is a down pipe necessary if going BT but not exceeding stock fueling capability?

Honestly it's been recommended but I'd really like to see someone do this. I'm willing to bet you can max the stock fuel system on the stock downpipe without much fuss. As I just mentioned in another thread, @[email protected] was doing this and tuning their own car but haven't logged into the forums in 5 years and never reported back on how it worked.

I know one guy I can ask (he's on the forums infrequently but I forget his username, I'd have to dig) he has the 2867 but as far as I know he still has the stock intercooler as well, which is his limiting factor by a long shot. I've yet to see anyone big turbo, aftermarket intercooler, stock downpipe on here posting data. I'd really like someone to step up to the plate and do this!


Edit: here's the video. Still can't remember his username.

 

[STallion18]

You also can remove the kink of the OEM downpipe. It will streamline the turbo exit flow. Somebody in the forum did that sometime ago.

 

[TurboGT]

You also can remove the kink of the OEM downpipe. It will streamline the turbo exit flow. Somebody in the forum did that sometime ago.

Yeah that was @Habriant40 . It's a shame his crackle tune shattered the substrate, I wanted to see his future testing with that.

 

[Ujiro]

Honestly it's been recommended but I'd really like to see someone do this. I'm willing to bet you can max the stock fuel system on the stock downpipe without much fuss. As I just mentioned in another thread, @[email protected] was doing this and tuning their own car but haven't logged into the forums in 5 years and never reported back on how it worked.

I know one guy I can ask (he's on the forums infrequently but I forget his username, I'd have to dig) he has the 2867 but as far as I know he still has the stock intercooler as well, which is his limiting factor by a long shot. I've yet to see anyone big turbo, aftermarket intercooler, stock downpipe on here posting data. I'd really like someone to step up to the plate and do this!


Edit: here's the video. Still can't remember his username.

I’ve been considering going BT and would rather try to see if i can save the cost of the down pipe. I’m going to start pricing it all out and I’ll see what i can make work.

would this also eliminate the need for the junits/Michael elbow?

 

[rob99rt]

I’ve been considering going BT and would rather try to see if i can save the cost of the down pipe. I’m going to start pricing it all out and I’ll see what i can make work.

would this also eliminate the need for the junits/Michael elbow?

No, the elbow goes from the cylinder head to the turbo. The downpipe goes from the turbo to the exhaust.

 

[TurboGT]

.

would this also eliminate the need for the junits/Michael elbow?

No, that's still a necessity. If you're really trying to budget this, you can get around it by buying a BNR67 turbo, though, despite it being inferior to the GTX gen2 turbos.

The BNR turbos are constantly backordered though. I'm not sure what the lead times are these days on them, but you'll need to order it way ahead of time.

 

[Ujiro]

No, not looking to go budget on the turbo part (biggest ticket item.. cry hard but only once instead of trying to go cheaper and having to replace much water down the line). Thanks for your help, gentlemen