[duster360]

Once you hit 100% WGDC you can't raise boost anymore electronically. The only way boost will go up on the SAME turbo is:

1. Bigger intake and less pressure drops between turbo and manifold
2. More atmospheric pressure (lower altitude etc)
3. Lower temperatures
4. Bigger exhaust (pressure differential across the turbine to spin it faster)
5. Stiffer wastegate spring
6. If BPV is leaking, fixing that.

i'll add this to the list:
7. FMIC with lower pressure drop.

Too often a cheap FMIC may provide cooler out temp not from greater thermal efficiency but from beating and restricting the airflow to a crawl. The slower moving and restricted air flow allows more time for heat transfer.
For example, on SRT the little stock FMIC would drop ~1.9psi. By comparison a Large but poor quality FMIC would drop 3.5-4psi, even though its was 2X the size. The better and often more expensive FMIC would drop maybe 1psi.
When the turbo is already taxed, loosing another 2psi is a big deal.

Before anyone says; "sure it drops more pressure, because the air is cooler,,{insert balloon anaolgy}",,Sorry guys, Gas Dynamics doesn't work like that. So once the air is flowing, other rules apply.

 

[Alex@Stratified]

i'll add this:
7. FMIC with lower pressure drop.

Too often a cheap FMIC may provide cooler out temp not from greater thermal efficiency but from beating and restricting the airflow to a crawl. The slower moving and restricted air flow allows more time for heat transfer.
For example, on SRT the little stock FMIC would drop ~1.9psi. By comparison a Large but poor quality FMIC would drop 3.5-4psi, even though its was 2X the size. The better and often more expensive FMIC would drop maybe 1psi.
When the turbo is already taxed, loosing another 2psi is a big deal.

Before anyone says; "sure it drops more pressure, because the air is cooler,,{insert balloon anaolgy}",,Sorry guys, Gas Dynamics doesn't work like that. So once the air is flowing, other rules apply.

Good point. I included that in pressure drops from turbo to manifold but it is good to specify. The FMIC in this car, on pump gas especially is probably THE best bang for the buck performance modification. I think that bang for the buck, a good FMIC, a well flowing filter, and a tune will get you to at least 95% of what the car can do on stock turbo.

 

[duster360]

Also, adding a little more spring tension preload to the stock wga may help out a little without a whole lot of fuss.
CAT past 5000rpm wil probably go up but it seems there's more issues with negative timing correction below 5K than above it.

 

[DAM]

Made 2 more logs today it was pretty nice out about 45 degrees. Same as the previous two logs except a little cooler outside and I started a tad later in the rpm at about 2500. no negative timing corrections at all

datazap.me | DAM | 3rd gear ots stage 1 93oct v200

this one I hit the button to log late I believe. I see a little negative at first but not bad. Figured I would post it also

datazap.me | DAM | 3rd gear ots stage 1 93oct v200

 

[DAM]

I might add I did install a new sound symposer actuator valve today at work but I doubt that it would affect the cars drivability at all.

 

[Alex@Stratified]

Made 2 more logs today it was pretty nice out about 45 degrees. Same as the previous two logs except a little cooler outside and I started a tad later in the rpm at about 2500. no negative timing corrections at all

datazap.me | DAM | 3rd gear ots stage 1 93oct v200

this one I hit the button to log late I believe. I see a little negative at first but not bad. Figured I would post it also

datazap.me | DAM | 3rd gear ots stage 1 93oct v200

The ECU is adding timing this time. The biggest difference here (amongst the variables recorded) is the charge air temps which is quite a bit lower this time.

 

[DAM]

The ECU is adding timing this time. The biggest difference here (amongst the variables recorded) is the charge air temps which is quite a bit lower this time.

yeah I wanted to get a log earlier today as the temperature was close to 60 but I had to work :/ I started a little later in the rpm so it didn't load the engine up while the turbo was trying to make boost. Either way I have an intake ordered and I filed my taxes so when I get my return in about a week im ordering and intercooler asap haha

 

[Alex@Stratified]

yeah I wanted to get a log earlier today as the temperature was close to 60 but I had to work :/ I started a little later in the rpm so it didn't load the engine up while the turbo was trying to make boost. Either way I have an intake ordered and I filed my taxes so when I get my return in about a week im ordering and intercooler asap haha

Cool - I was able to determine all the other cylinder ignition timing values from the log under WOT. I really like how this ECU works. I think the IC is going to be a very nice change for you.

 

[DAM]

Even how it is now is super fun. It was running pretty good today. 40 degrees outside loaded up in third broke the tires loose. Kinda surprised me haha. I can't wait to get an IC

 

[Alex@Stratified]

Even how it is now is super fun. It was running pretty good today. 40 degrees outside loaded up in third broke the tires loose. Kinda surprised me haha. I can't wait to get an IC

With cooler air and a smaller pressure drop you will definitely see an improvement.

 

[rader1]

Even how it is now is super fun. It was running pretty good today. 40 degrees outside loaded up in third broke the tires loose. Kinda surprised me haha. I can't wait to get an IC

Wait until you get the meth kit installed

 

[Silver_Shooter]

i'll add this to the list:
7. FMIC with lower pressure drop.

Too often a cheap FMIC may provide cooler out temp not from greater thermal efficiency but from beating and restricting the airflow to a crawl. The slower moving and restricted air flow allows more time for heat transfer.
For example, on SRT the little stock FMIC would drop ~1.9psi. By comparison a Large but poor quality FMIC would drop 3.5-4psi, even though its was 2X the size. The better and often more expensive FMIC would drop maybe 1psi.
When the turbo is already taxed, loosing another 2psi is a big deal.

Before anyone says; "sure it drops more pressure, because the air is cooler,,{insert balloon anaolgy}",,Sorry guys, Gas Dynamics doesn't work like that. So once the air is flowing, other rules apply.

Good point. I didn't mean to clutter this thread up so much, I'm making some changes and will do some new logs in a new thread.
That said, I didn't do a pressure drop test on my "cheap" intercooler, but I did before/after logs without a ecu reset. Boost levels were exactly the same as well as wgdc. I would expect that introducing more pressure drop would have made the ecu react to the lower boost and try to raise it. This wasn't the case. Max pressure, as well as fall off, stayed the same.
My car always seemed to be just below the boost target on every map I've had (FSW, Unleashed, OTS).
Thanks for all of the info. See you in the next thread



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[Kevin]

Regarding the CXRacing intercooler pressure drop some did do a before and after. The difference averaged out to .046 loss over stock.

 

[duster360]

Regarding the CXRacing intercooler pressure drop some did do a before and after. The difference averaged out to .046 loss over stock.

Can you link to that testing/data/discussion?

 

[Alex@Stratified]

Regarding the CXRacing intercooler pressure drop some did do a before and after. The difference averaged out to .046 loss over stock.

The pressure drop will be directly proportional to flow. The more flow, the higher the pressure drop.

 

[Kevin]

It was in the Godspeed thread which will take a bit to go through. Just going off memory for now they did three runs stock and three with the aftermarket ic. I believe the car was stock except for the ic. They posted graphs right off the dyno monitor. I'll look for it later and post it up when I find it.

 

[Alex@Stratified]

It was in the Godspeed thread which will take a bit to go through. Just going off memory for now they did three runs stock and three with the aftermarket ic. I believe the car was stock except for the ic. They posted graphs right off the dyno monitor. I'll look for it later and post it up when I find it.

I assume they put a sensor before the IC as well as after the IC and used an external data acquisition system?

 

[rader1]

It was in the Godspeed thread which will take a bit to go through. Just going off memory for now they did three runs stock and three with the aftermarket ic. I believe the car was stock except for the ic. They posted graphs right off the dyno monitor. I'll look for it later and post it up when I find it.

I'd like to see that. Because I'm pretty sure .046 pressure drop is impossible for an intercooler that's actually cooling any air.

 

[hemiCouple@Stratified]

Silver_shooter uses one of those intercoolers and posted a log in his original thread about it here: http://www.focusst.org/forum/focus-st-guides/14023-cxr-do-yourself-intercooler-guide.html

 

[Kevin]

I have know idea. You guys are clearly well versed I this area and I'm learning as I go. They used a special fitting it wasn't measured with the ecu. .046 wasn't total loss it was in addition to what the loss is with stock. The thread that started it all was the Godspeed type c thread.