Mysterious Turbo Loss @ Highway Speed

3321 Views 25 Replies 9 Participants Last post by gswede, Aug 24, 2017

Nas-ST

Discussion Starter · Aug 20, 2017 (Edited)

Hi all - I've searched the forum for this issue but didn't quite seem to find anything that fit. I have a 2014 ST3, creeping up on 125k miles. That's not a misprint. I've run it stock since ownership. It's my daily driver and I was 48 when I picked her up. I don't race it, but I drive it the way any red-blooded American should drive that car. I like to push it on the highway when possible and downshift and blow past some tool bag in a ricer when he's acting a fool. (which probably makes me a tool bag also)

I was driving on the highway yesterday, 92 degrees out. Open road for the most part. I'd been sitting and idling for a while waiting to pick my daughter up from soccer practice in the A/C. When we left we were in some city, stop & go traffic, then hit the highway. I was rolling along at about 60 mph and put the pedal down to pass. I had zero turbo boost. The gauge didn't move. Pegged at 0, and the car felt very sluggish. I was going to pull to the shoulder but was in a bit of traffic, so kept going keeping my foot out of the pedal. I was able to maintain speed but there was no, and I mean no available power to quickly increase speed. After about a minute of that, I felt the turbo come back. I tested it out and it felt fine and resumed normal driving. It went out again about 10 minutes later but again came back. The car ran normally after that for the remainder of our 45 minute ride. (had to drop one of her teammates off) Inexplicable.

I'm embarrassed to say my air filter was long overdue for replacement, and I put a new K&N in when I got home. (wasn't sure if this could influence this issue or not) I have not been able to replicate the problem. No engine light came on. No warning lights. I've read about the possibility of the charge pipe popping off which seems to be a common occurrence, but if that were the problem I obviously wouldn't have returned to normal operation.

Any ideas?

Sorry for the long post but wanted to describe the best I can.

Also, after 124k miles I have had no significant issues at all with my ST. It's been good to me.

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5dmc1

· #2 · Aug 20, 2017

Nas-ST said:
Hi all - I've searched the forum for this issue but didn't quite seem to find anything that fit. I have a 2014 ST3, creeping up on 125k miles. That's not a misprint. I've run it stock since ownership. It's my daily driver and I was 48 when I picked her up. I don't race it, but I drive it the way any red-blooded American should drive that car. I like to push it on the highway when possible and downshift and blow past some tool bag in a ricer when he's acting a fool. (which probably makes me a tool bag also)

I was driving on the highway yesterday, 92 degrees out. Open road for the most part. I'd been sitting and idling for a while waiting to pick my daughter up from soccer practice in the A/C. When we left we were in some city, stop & go traffic, then hit the highway. I was rolling along at about 60 mph and put the pedal down to pass. I had zero turbo boost. The gauge didn't move. Pegged at 0, and the car felt very sluggish. I was going to pull to the shoulder but was in a bit of traffic, so kept going keeping my foot out of the pedal. I was able to maintain speed but there was no, and I mean no available power to quickly increase speed. After about a minute of that, I felt the turbo come back. I tested it out and it felt fine and resumed normal driving. It went out again about 10 minutes later but again came back. The car ran normally after that for the remainder of our 45 minute ride. (had to drop one of her teammates off) Inexplicable.

I'm embarrassed to say my air filter was long overdue for replacement, and I put a new K&N in when I got home. (wasn't sure if this could influence this issue or not) I have not been able to replicate the problem. No engine light came on. No warning lights. I've read about the possibility of the charge pipe popping off which seems to be a common occurrence, but if that were the problem I obviously wouldn't have returned to normal operation.

Any ideas?

Sorry for the long post but wanted to describe the best I can.

Also, after 124k miles I have had no significant issues at all with my ST. It's been good to me.

Your not going to like what i am going to say, but most turbo life spabs are about 75k miles. I would take it in for service and have them check your turbo, it may be time for a new one. Or it could be simple like you said and just have been a clogged air filter, but being that u have crossed thr 100k mark, i would have that turbine checked before you push the car again. Last thing you want to do is throw a blade into your engine and if you are leaking boost through a crack in the housing or something, that could very well be possible. One way or another, get the car checked by a trusted mechanic before you go WOT again.

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Nas-ST

Discussion Starter · #3 · Aug 20, 2017

5dmc1 said:
Your not going to like what i am going to say, but most turbo life spabs are about 75k miles. I would take it in for service and have them check your turbo, it may be time for a new one. Or it could be simple like you said and just have been a clogged air filter, but being that u have crossed thr 100k mark, i would have that turbine checked before you push the car again. Last thing you want to do is throw a blade into your engine and if you are leaking boost through a crack in the housing or something, that could very well be possible. One way or another, get the car checked by a trusted mechanic before you go WOT again.

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Thanks, 5dmc1. It comes as no surprise to hear you say that. This was something I'd contemplated myself, but wanted to know if anyone else had experienced the same issue.

Any idea what a turbo replacement is going to set me back? That is assuming I don't wait for it to fail and cause residual damage.

Slo86GT

· #4 · Aug 20, 2017 (Edited)

If your car isn't smoking, the turbo failing is a worst case scenario. When the shaft play gets enough that the turbine won't spin, the seals will wear and produce an oil/water smokeshow.

My bet is on a punctured or otherwise damaged intercooler (it is at the leading edge of the car), or a bad pressure hose/connection.

In short, if no smoke, don't fear. I'd put money on a large pressure leak. In the meantime, if you HAVE to drive it, limp it around at as little throttle as you can, or the lack of pressure pushing back on the turbo can and will cause it to be overspun and could sling the impeller/compressor apart and that is a mess.

5dmc1

· #5 · Aug 20, 2017

Nas-ST said:
Thanks, 5dmc1. It comes as no surprise to hear you say that. This was something I'd contemplated myself, but wanted to know if anyone else had experienced the same issue.

Any idea what a turbo replacement is going to set me back? That is assuming I don't wait for it to fail and cause residual damage.

Do NOT wait, if the tech says its damaged replace it with another motorcraft turbo. You dont want to loose the engine just to get a few extra miles out of a worn out turbine. A new turbo, is about 600-900 dollars depending on where u buy it, expect to pay about 3-500 in labor.

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Nas-ST

Discussion Starter · #6 · Aug 20, 2017

Slo86GT said:
If your car isn't smoking, the turbo failing is a worst case scenario. When the shaft play gets enough that the turbine won't spin, the seals will wear and produce an oil/water smokeshow.

My bet is on a punctured or otherwise damaged intercooler (it is at the leading edge of the car), or a bad pressure hose/connection.

In short, if no smoke, don't fear. I'd put money on a large pressure leak. In the meantime, if you HAVE to drive it, limp it around at as little throttle as you can, or the lack of pressure pushing back on the turbo can and will cause it to be overspun and could sling the impeller/compressor apart and that is a mess.

No smoking at all. That would have been a pretty serious tell. Hoping you're right about a pressure leak, although a punctured intercooler, which BTW doesn't sound like a cheap fix, either. We'll see what the dealer has to say.

Nas-ST

Discussion Starter · #7 · Aug 20, 2017

5dmc1 said:
Do NOT wait, if the tech says its damaged replace it with another motorcraft turbo. You dont want to loose the engine just to get a few extra miles out of a worn out turbine. A new turbo, is about 600-900 dollars depending on where u buy it, expect to pay about 3-500 in labor.

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Will do. I'm not one to procrastinate when it comes to these things. I'll post after hearing dealer diagnosis.

Thanks!

5dmc1

· #8 · Aug 20, 2017

Nas-ST said:
Will do. I'm not one to procrastinate when it comes to these things. I'll post after hearing dealer diagnosis.

Thanks!

Keep your fingers crossed. Hopefully its something cheap. If you are out of warranty though, and u have a trusted mechanic, i would take it to them, there is a reason dealerships are referred to as "stealerships"

Good luck!

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Nas-ST

Discussion Starter · #9 · Aug 20, 2017

5dmc1 said:
Keep your fingers crossed. Hopefully its something cheap. If you are out of warranty though, and u have a trusted mechanic, i would take it to them, there is a reason dealerships are referred to as "stealerships"

Good luck!

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Purchased an extended warranty that takes me to either 120k or 125k when I bought the car, knowing I put lots of miles on per year. Going to check that out before I do anything.

Bliss_ST

· #10 · Aug 20, 2017

I bet you it is a wastegate solenoid issue. We had a local guy have all kinds of wonky stuff happen to his car and it turned out to be the wastegate solenoid.

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Nas-ST

Discussion Starter · #11 · Aug 20, 2017

Bliss_ST said:
I bet you it is a wastegate solenoid issue. We had a local guy have all kinds of wonky stuff happen to his car and it turned out to be the wastegate solenoid.

I'll definitely ask them to look at that. Thanks for the heads-up.

E.E.

· #12 · Aug 21, 2017

First, I would not do anything until it was clear the issue was not a one time deal.
Second, the long idle with air conditioning on...May have heat soaked the whole engine bay.
The short time moving may have not been enough to clear the heat soak???

Also, you mention trying to accelerate from 60. Was this is sixth gear?
If I want to move at that speed, I would be downshifting to 3rd or 4th!

Anyway, the 92F was pretty hot.. I would not be surprised, after doing what you had done,
to have the engine decide to not give me any boost.. So like I wrote, unless it is continuing to do it...

Nas-ST

Discussion Starter · #13 · Aug 21, 2017

E.E. said:
First, I would not do anything until it was clear the issue was not a one time deal.
Second, the long idle with air conditioning on...May have heat soaked the whole engine bay.
The short time moving may have not been enough to clear the heat soak???

Also, you mention trying to accelerate from 60. Was this is sixth gear?
If I want to move at that speed, I would be downshifting to 3rd or 4th!

Anyway, the 92F was pretty hot.. I would not be surprised, after doing what you had done,
to have the engine decide to not give me any boost.. So like I wrote, unless it is continuing to do it...

Hey E.E. - I didn't drive the car today, so we'll see how she acts tomorrow on the way to and from work. When I tried to accelerate from 60, I initially just hit the gas and felt zero boost. I wasn't trying to pass, just speed up gradually. Not a typical downshift situation. I then downshifted to 5th, then 4th, and the same lack of available turbo existed. When the downshift happened and I applied the gas, there was just a feeling of, well, nothing. Nearly no available power. I could maintain speed, and VERY slowly accelerate a few mph faster (on level ground), but that was it.

As I mentioned, after a while of not pushing it, turbo and power returned like normal. I put the K&N air filter on once I got home and the car had cooled off for a couple of hours, took her out for a spirited run and she felt as though nothing ever happened. Just weird. I pushed her hard, too. Ran out again later that evening and got into the pedal again, normal strong operation and plenty of pull. Hoping that will be the case again tomorrow.

I won't assume there's nothing wrong, and will have Ford take a look either this week or by this coming weekend and see what they have to say. It will be worth it to me to pay for the diagnostics visit. If they want my first born to fix whatever might be detected, if anything, I'll hold off and weigh my options.

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Slo86GT

· #14 · Aug 21, 2017

Classic heat soak. You saying zero boost made me think you were looking at the gauge. Silly me.

Nothing to go to the dealer over, and frankly I'm highly surprised you haven't experienced this before. Happen to me every time I sit in a drive thru, at a long stop light, whatever in Houston heat, and I've only had my car a few months.

Nas-ST

Discussion Starter · #15 · Aug 21, 2017

Slo86GT said:
Classic heat soak. You saying zero boost made me think you were looking at the gauge. Silly me.

Nothing to go to the dealer over, and frankly I'm highly surprised you haven't experienced this before. Happen to me every time I sit in a drive thru, at a long stop light, whatever in Houston heat, and I've only had my car a few months.

First time in almost 4 years / 125,000 miles. While it doesn't get as hot here in MD as it does in TX, I can assure you we've had 90 - 100+ degree heat over extended periods of time every summer since I've owned the car.

I sure hope that's what this was. Regardless, it seems I'm on borrowed time with the original turbo. Sooner or later I'm going to have to pay the piper, or trade / sell it before it becomes a money pit. Man that's a sad thought, but it just may be time.

5dmc1

· #16 · Aug 22, 2017

Nas-ST said:
First time in almost 4 years / 125,000 miles. While it doesn't get as hot here in MD as it does in TX, I can assure you we've had 90 - 100+ degree heat over extended periods of time every summer since I've owned the car.

I sure hope that's what this was. Regardless, it seems I'm on borrowed time with the original turbo. Sooner or later I'm going to have to pay the piper, or trade / sell it before it becomes a money pit. Man that's a sad thought, but it just may be time.

If you do decide to sell, trade in for a facelift before the 18's roll in, they are ugly AF IMO, and will have only a 3 pot engine...

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5dmc1

· #17 · Aug 22, 2017

I just bought mine through costco back in may. Completely painless experience, no haggling, costco sends you to one of their dealers, they give you a costco fleet price and you drive away. I got 2k off my st from costco plus 250 in incentives, zero down zero apr. If you do decidr to trade up to a new one, definitely do it through costco. Oh! And save all your mods, almost all the performance mods from the 13-14 st's fit the new ones.

Personally, i would buy the new car first, then transfer over all your mods, then put all the stock parts on the old car, that should increase its value a bit and you will make more money selling it privately.

Just my $0.02

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K-austi3

· #18 · Aug 22, 2017

5dmc1 said:
If you do decide to sell, trade in for a facelift before the 18's roll in, they are ugly AF IMO, and will have only a 3 pot engine...

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Im pretty sure its just the fiesta st thats going to the 3-banger. I could be wrong but I havent seen any literature saying the focus is changing power plants in the st trim.

DanM

· #19 · Aug 22, 2017

Alot of fear mongoring with all these worse case scenarios. Before you jump to any conclusions and start throwing parts at the car you need to data log if you have an AP, or grab a scan tool, check for codes and if possible look at actual values while your driving as your replicating your concern. Something as simple as a bad map sensor could be the cause. Basic good starting points are a charge air leak test as well. If you cant do these then just take it in to a reputable shop.

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Nas-ST

Discussion Starter · #20 · Aug 22, 2017

DanM said:
Alot of fear mongoring with all these worse case scenarios. Before you jump to any conclusions and start throwing parts at the car you need to data log if you have an AP, or grab a scan tool, check for codes and if possible look at actual values while your driving as your replicating your concern. Something as simple as a bad map sensor could be the cause. Basic good starting points are a charge air leak test as well. If you cant do these then just take it in to a reputable shop.

Thanks, Dan. I haven't been able to replicate the issue since Saturday. The car has been driving it's normal, awesome self. That said, I'm not jumping to any conclusions and will start with the basics and figure stuff out.

Ironically, I just had the car up on jack stands while performing an oil change and had all the under-goodies removed. I guess I'll need to do that again to check the charge pipe. What a drag.

I'm what you might call "semi" mechanically inclined. I've changed the rotors and pads all around, do my oil changes and have replaced the spark plugs. Basic stuff. But I don't have scan tools and frankly wouldn't know what I'm looking at if I did. I'll likely need to take this to someone trustworthy to see what they say. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I haven't had the car anywhere but the dealer as I've had no need for major repair work, so I'll poke around and see who's reputable in my area, sans Ford, for an unbiased diagnostic report.

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