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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So this review had kind of been a long time coming and it will cover both the Monster tuned BT review (as I don't think I've seen another one yet) and my custom turbo inlet elbow for and ATP GTX 2867r Gen II kit

Elbow:

So for those that don't know, the ATP turbo kit is supplied with an elbow that looks like the one pictured below:
Nickel Gas Automotive exhaust Machine Automotive lighting
Camera Camera lens Reflex camera Cameras & optics Film camera


There are two main issues with this design
1. placement of the EWG port (not a huge concern for power south of 400)
2. inlet port to head matching

Point 1 is easy to understand, exhaust gasses will swirl in the EWG port, capped or open, taking energy away that would otherwise be used to spool the turbo earlier.

Port number two is best explained using this image: on the left is what the ATP elbow comes as, and on the right is what we would rather have:
Hand Product Human body Handwriting Slope
Hand Facial expression Human body Slope Rectangle


My solution looks like this:
Wood Gas Bumper Nickel Aluminium
Hand Household hardware Finger Automotive exhaust Gas

Rectangle Camera accessory Circle Auto part Metal


The EWG port is removed and the inlet port is the same size as the hole on the head. Looking at the green lines indicated exhaust gas flow we can see that on the ATP elbow there are swirls happening around the exhaust port on the head and inside the EWG port. The swirls on the head are of particular concern as they create areas of significantly raided temperature at the corners of the port. This puts additional stress on the metal in those areas and can lead to failures, potentially seen as coolant leaks from that area.

The improved elbow mitigates this by putting stainless steel all the way up to the edges of the exhaust port and chamfering it out to meet the stainless tubing used to construct the manifold. This reduces swirling in that area reducing heat at the corners of the exhaust port on the head.

The backstory on how I had this made was that I sent my ATP elbow to GPHeaders in Minnesota, he used it to make a jig and fabricate an improved copy of the elbow as I wanted.

This elbow is currently installed in the car and has been running for three weeks beautifully, fitment was ever so slightly off but not enough to cause any issues.


Monster Tuned BT tune

I had this turbo setup tuned by Tim Pownall at @MonsterTuned Tim did an excellent job and completed the tune in record time. Total time from the first log to tune completion was three days. I think the most intense day was four logs in one day. Really stellar work and incredible CS from Tim, as always.


Here is a log of the final revision of the tune:

Slope Rectangle Parallel Astronomical object Font


We're hitting 20 pounds of boost by 3500 RPM, which is almost identical to the stock setup. This has really made a world of difference the car is an absolute animal now, especially above 4k RPM. While driving around at low speed there is not a huge difference in performance, the car still has lots of pep for getting off the line quickly, but its not a torque monster any more like it would have been on the stock unit.

The best way I can describe the change is that with the stock turbo, the power felt like a wall, it came on all at once like the flick of a switch and died out quickly. Where with this tune and turbo, it feels like the power more swells into existence, and sticks around until redline. In terms of lag, the stock turbo was basically full power above 3k RPM, where as this setup really doesn't hit full boost until 3.7k. You will notice the lag but it wont kill you, its very manageable and I quickly adapted my driving style to suit the slightly later power. Knowing what I know now I wouldn't ever worry about the lag for a 2867, its just not an issue.

The tune has a 20PSI map slot just in case I need more traction in the winter. Though the general pedal feel and control of the tune is very good, I don't think I will need it. Its very easy to modulate your power with this tune.



Overall the setup is very solid, and I would highly recommend Tim for anyone else looking to do some BT tuning. Time will tell about the longevity and usefulness of the custom elbow, but I'm very happy that I had it made it. For anyone else that wishes they could have something similar, I haven't given up on the dream of having them produced in larger numbers quite yet!
 

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That's an awesome write-up @junits15 ! I do appreciate your colorful drawing (along with many other things you do here!); it is a quick and easy way for me to understand the difference in dynamics; rather than pull out a pen and paper :p.

Any idea what kind of WHP you're putting down now? I seriously have been in love with that custom elbow since you introduced it! So many options, but only one bank account, LOL.
 

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Do you have a before set of numbers to compare this to? Trying to quantify what effect this had.
 

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2014 ST3. Garrett Powermax turbo, Thermal Turboback, CPE intercooler, JBR intake, Innovative RMM
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Excellent. Glad this finally came together and you can enjoy it now!

Did you supply the flange for the turbo elbow, or did the fabrictor supply everything? If you did, where did you buy the flange?
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That's an awesome write-up @junits15 ! I do appreciate your colorful drawing (along with many other things you do here!); it is a quick and easy way for me to understand the difference in dynamics; rather than pull out a pen and paper :p.

Any idea what kind of WHP you're putting down now? I seriously have been in love with that custom elbow since you introduced it! So many options, but only one bank account, LOL.
I haven't been on the dyno, I plan to get on in the next few weeks to see how its doing!


Do you have a before set of numbers to compare this to? Trying to quantify what effect this had.
I do not, I had the kit installed with the elbow, so I dont know what the difference from the regular elbow really looks like.


Excellent. Glad this finally came together and you can enjoy it now!

Did you supply the flange for the turbo elbow, or did the fabrictor supply everything? If you did, where did you buy the flange?

I supplied a flange made by JM fabrications, however they don't sell it any more, this one here looks halfway decent: Stainless Focus ST Ecoboost 2.0 Liter Inlet Flange to 2.0" Sch 40 Pipe Fits Ford | eBay

The fabricator said that he could have made the flange if i needed by just using a gasket as a template.
 

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I鈥檓 not too convinced that this is beneficial especially when you can attach the external waste gate to alleviate that turbulence and maintain a steady boost .
Having a waste gate on there is not going to alleviate the turbulence; the exhaust is still going to swirl around in that area. It may be less turbulence when the waste gate is wide open. Also, having the port on the elbow larger than the exhaust port creates another area for the exhaust to swirl around.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I鈥檓 not too convinced that this is beneficial especially when you can attach the external waste gate to alleviate that turbulence and maintain a steady boost .
So I had wondered this too, but attaching an external wastegate doesn't fix the issue. In steady state operation the swirl doesn't actually matter, the difference occurs during transient operation, like when you slam on the gas, that's when energy is spent setting up the swirl. At that time, when the turbo is first spooling, the wastegate is fully closed or very close to closed. Effectively its like the port is capped off, so the swirl will still set up. So by extension, the issue exists with or without an EWG.

Once the turbo is spooled, the presence of the EWG port doesn't matter on a small turbo like a 2867, as the flow gets higher with very large turbos and very high HP you may see HP gains by removing the port. You wont see higher max HP with this on a 2867.

The thing is that's not why I had it made, I did this to protect my head, having the chamfered edge on the exhaust port is the optimal way to get exhaust gasses out of the head as easily as possible. That translates to less pressure inside the runners during the whole pull, and reduced hot spots on the exhaust outlet port.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I鈥檓 not too convinced that this is beneficial especially when you can attach the external waste gate to alleviate that turbulence and maintain a steady boost .
I can draw up another sketch tonight to show what I mean
 

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So this review had kind of been a long time coming and it will cover both the Monster tuned BT review (as I don't think I've seen another one yet) and my custom turbo inlet elbow for and ATP GTX 2867r Gen II kit

Elbow:

So for those that don't know, the ATP turbo kit is supplied with an elbow that looks like the one pictured below:
View attachment 396303 View attachment 396309

There are two main issues with this design
1. placement of the EWG port (not a huge concern for power south of 400)
2. inlet port to head matching

Point 1 is easy to understand, exhaust gasses will swirl in the EWG port, capped or open, taking energy away that would otherwise be used to spool the turbo earlier.

Port number two is best explained using this image: on the left is what the ATP elbow comes as, and on the right is what we would rather have:
View attachment 396304 View attachment 396305

My solution looks like this:
View attachment 396306 View attachment 396307
View attachment 396308

The EWG port is removed and the inlet port is the same size as the hole on the head. Looking at the green lines indicated exhaust gas flow we can see that on the ATP elbow there are swirls happening around the exhaust port on the head and inside the EWG port. The swirls on the head are of particular concern as they create areas of significantly raided temperature at the corners of the port. This puts additional stress on the metal in those areas and can lead to failures, potentially seen as coolant leaks from that area.

The improved elbow mitigates this by putting stainless steel all the way up to the edges of the exhaust port and chamfering it out to meet the stainless tubing used to construct the manifold. This reduces swirling in that area reducing heat at the corners of the exhaust port on the head.

The backstory on how I had this made was that I sent my ATP elbow to GPHeaders in Minnesota, he used it to make a jig and fabricate an improved copy of the elbow as I wanted.

This elbow is currently installed in the car and has been running for three weeks beautifully, fitment was ever so slightly off but not enough to cause any issues.


Monster Tuned BT tune

I had this turbo setup tuned by Tim Pownall at @MonsterTuned Tim did an excellent job and completed the tune in record time. Total time from the first log to tune completion was three days. I think the most intense day was four logs in one day. Really stellar work and incredible CS from Tim, as always.


Here is a log of the final revision of the tune:

View attachment 396311

We're hitting 20 pounds of boost by 3500 RPM, which is almost identical to the stock setup. This has really made a world of difference the car is an absolute animal now, especially above 4k RPM. While driving around at low speed there is not a huge difference in performance, the car still has lots of pep for getting off the line quickly, but its not a torque monster any more like it would have been on the stock unit.

The best way I can describe the change is that with the stock turbo, the power felt like a wall, it came on all at once like the flick of a switch and died out quickly. Where with this tune and turbo, it feels like the power more swells into existence, and sticks around until redline. In terms of lag, the stock turbo was basically full power above 3k RPM, where as this setup really doesn't hit full boost until 3.7k. You will notice the lag but it wont kill you, its very manageable and I quickly adapted my driving style to suit the slightly later power. Knowing what I know now I wouldn't ever worry about the lag for a 2867, its just not an issue.

The tune has a 20PSI map slot just in case I need more traction in the winter. Though the general pedal feel and control of the tune is very good, I don't think I will need it. Its very easy to modulate your power with this tune.



Overall the setup is very solid, and I would highly recommend Tim for anyone else looking to do some BT tuning. Time will tell about the longevity and usefulness of the custom elbow, but I'm very happy that I had it made it. For anyone else that wishes they could have something similar, I haven't given up on the dream of having them produced in larger numbers quite yet!
I see the log posted so I feel like I need to explain the throttle closure is an airflow source limit from the ecu closing the throttle to prevent the car from flowing more air than the factory injectors are capable of flowing at that RPM, so it's realistically a 5800 rpm rev limit, so basically you're shifting at the same RPM as the stock turbo. The other option is I run a leaner AFR up top which I may try on another revision as I'm currently reviewing some things. The OTS maps that other tuners start from have the airflow limit for injectors disabled, so the car leans up as opposed to closing the throttle instead. We still keep all safety nets on the big turbo tunes.
 

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Nice writeup man I love taking in all the info I can about these cars 馃憤. Maybe someday ill join the BT ranks im definitely more confident about it with the safety nets Tim provides.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Rectangle Slope Plot Line Font


Here's a fun little graph, if anyone would like to send me datalogs I will add them to this spreadsheet so we can have a master comparison of different turbos!
 

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What was the external diameter of the opening on the turbo side for the turbo flange you used? All the ones I鈥檓 finding online are 2.5鈥
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for the reply, really helpful 馃檹馃徏
I understand you鈥檇 need a custom downpipe for this too?
If you copy the ATP elbow closely enough you dont need a custom downpipe, I am using a cobb downpipe.
 
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