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Can you mod too much?

  • Yup!

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  • No Way!

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  • Not sure but will find out

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  • No idea and staying close to stock

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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So after reading through some BT threads and some more recent sale/part out threads it seems to me that there is a wall we can hit on the ST where you are modding just to mod and you are ruining the feel/driving experience of this as a car. Now for track guys it's a different thing, but for a DD, there seems to be a limit.

From what I can tell it seems that the added stiffness and nvh of some mods can really change the feel and people aren't realizing it until after they do the mods. Or you are adding too much power and can't use half of it and your tires only last 5k.
So what's people's thoughts on this, where do you think people should stop? What's a popular mod that just doesn't make sense to you etc.... Or personally what did you do that you really regret and wouldn't ever put on your car again?
 

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Hi my name is Kevin and I have a problem.

To me it just became a endless money pit and for what... to maybe see 500 at the tire that most of the time can not be used. Dont get me wrong this thing is a beast from a roll but I personally just let it get out of hand. I still want a ride in the speed performance st thought.
@Stealth
 

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It is only too much if you decide that you don't like what you have done. I will not be adding any stiffer motor mounts or chassis stiffening as I want a some what rattle and shake free ride. That is my opinion, as there are tons of people who love adding all of that stuff. So, it is most certainly a subjective topic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It is only too much if you decide that you don't like what you have done. I will not be adding any stiffer motor mounts or chassis stiffening as I want a some what rattle and shake free ride. That is my opinion, as there are tons of people who love adding all of that stuff. So, it is most certainly a subjective topic.
I just did the mountune RMM and have a front traction bar, going to add a rear bar and sway bar too. Hopefully it doesn't go too far. With the first two stiffeners I have been very happy so far, but there is some slight nvh now that wasn't there before.
 
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Mod extent is all subjective. You can either go too far or not enough. Mods that provide function can never be excessive. Mods that provide more form than function can be taken to the extreme quite easily.
 

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You can go too far. As OP pointed out modding for the sake of modding can be a problem. The other problems I think of are mostly from people not fully understanding what they want/what the part does. People like to simplify things and think in absolutes. For example... someone wants to upgrade a sway bar because race car. Lets say this individual does not fully understand suspension upgrades. They buy stiffest bar they can find because "Like you know stiffest must be the best". They hate the handling of the result because they did not consider the balance of the suspension and how they want the car to handle. They tell their friends it is the best upgrade ever because they will not admit when they wasted their money (kind of like when that air filter they bought added "20% more horsepower" :doh:)

In this line of thinking, I hate seeing the "which RMM do I have?" threads (typically new owners wondering if they have the E-Focus mount or the early soft standard Focus mount). The question should not be which RMM is on your car. The question is are you experiencing issues related to your RMM. If you are, the question then becomes which mount hits the balance you want. At that point, I suppose it is appropriate to ask which mount you have so you can figure out a starting point for your search. However, prior to deciding if your current mount is too soft/stiff, the question of which mount you have is pointless.
 

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You have gone too far modding your car when you can no longer afford your rent!
 

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MBRP exhaust on the BT setup is the only thing I regret. Probably going Milltek.
360hp/400tq to the wheels will get you into a lot of trouble on a daily driver. The HP is great for the highway and some B roads.
I've had this setup for 2 years and have no need for more power.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hell, if there IS a limit.. then...maybe we should have an intermission with @Duece McCracken because of how many mods his (Lease lmao) vehicle has
Still can't get how he does this to a lease. Hopefully his dealer never checks the forum lol
 
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It all depends on what you want from your car. If you are trying to get as much performance as you can and still have a comfortable daily driver (my goal) then yes you can go to far. However the good news is that it is not to hard to pick your mods to keep things reasonable.

The motor mounts (mm) are a place to be careful, while stiffer mounts are best for performance they are not the best for comfort. A rear mount is not bad, for PSMM you need to pick one that has stiffer than stock bushing but not outrageous. You will still get some vibes at idle with AC on no matter what you pick. The TMM is definitely something that will up the vibes. I have Steed RMM and PSMM and other than idle with ac on (only started after adding PSMM) I can't tell any increase in NVH. It seems to bother me more than any passengers I have in the car. I used the softer of the 2 included bushing for both.

Suspension, if you get stiff ass springs that are way above the stock rate what do you expect will happen? If you live in pot hole ridden area this is even more important to get right and maintain daily driving comfort. I have the Bilstien B8's with Swift springs and Steeda RSB and this is a great combo. Very well controlled without being harsh.

Exhaust is another area to be careful, drone and overall volume level can make a car less than comfortable for daily driving. I removed the catalyst from the stock DP and that is it. I do not have any gas smell and the car sounds great on the inside from the sound symposer but not loud outside. The PSMM really made the sound better, do not ask me how. Before I did that the car did not sound any different than stock with the catalyst removed.

Power, I have unleashed and freektune for SCT X4, green filter, and Steeda FMIC. These tunes are very good and well behaved and get me about 260HP to the wheels at 90F ambient on 93 octane.

Wheels and tires, this make more of a difference than you might imagine. I have 18X8 40 offset TD pro race 1.2 with Kuhmo PS91's 235/40 this drops about 7.5 lbs from each corner. To me the Kuhmo's are far better tires than the F1's in every way. Tire noise is decreased, dry grip is better, wet performance is better, longevity is better and at $126 a piece the price is better.

Brakes, I have the willwood 14/13 front/rear kit with VelossTech stage 1 brake ducts, most likely get the stage 2 soon. Very pricey but I like it and can afford it. I think this drops about 12lbs from each front corner and the braking is very linear and controlled. Next track day I will tell you if it was worth it. I did the 13" stock upgrade with Hawke HPS pads to my 2013 OW ST3 while better the rotor weight was noticeable on ride quality.

LSD, I have not done this yet. But seriously consider doing this next/soon. I want this even if I do not get bigger turbo. However, if I can put down the power I have now I'm sure I'll want more power.

Bigger Turbo, I have not done this yet. I really think about 325HP with a LSD would be perfect. No need for aux fuel, should be able to get away with not adding TMM.

The only thing that I don't like is the vibes at idle with AC on. If I knew how to fix it and keep the performance of upgraded PSMM I would.

For cost this is personal for everybody's own budget. In general springs/shocks, mounts, RSB, FMIC, and tune you are in for about $2.5K, Big brake kit $2K +, Wheels $1K+, big turbo $2.5K +, and LSD $1K. So it is not hard to drop $9K upgrading this car, add that to price of the car and does it make sense to you? Personally I do not like high monthly payments so the argument that you can go by Mustang GT or other more performance car does not hold much water. I like to do my mods over time paying cash as I go. Most likely would end up modding the GT as well so it is more money than most people make out when this discussion comes up. I have friends with Porsche's, Audi's, Mustangs, and Vette's that drop huge cash upgrading them.
 

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To me it was when I realized that I had become so paranoid about my engine popping that I stopped listening to my stereo and every little "strange" sound ended up with my car on a lift and me checking every part of my engine for a problem. Constantly doing logs to try to isolate issues before they happened to the point where is was becoming a chore... and then finally blowing my last car up, even after all those precautions, after only a year. ;)
 
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This is the first small (quick) car that I have had. I figured out early on that hard mounts are not for me. I sold a boomba rmm to flora after having it for 3k miles. I got lucky with the powerflex bushing for my oem rmm. It is not perfect, but no more shift bang and minimal wheel hop. I learned I don't like exhaust drone either with this car. I still would like to take the car a little further. I want a lsd and big (small) turbo. I want to stay with the low end grunt and go efr 6258 or 6758. It makes me a sad panda to see guys no longer like their car due to too many mods. I have studied many of your builds and have learned a lot. Alot of you guys have pushed the platform beyond what many thought could be. You have been an asset to this forum.

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I have been thinking about this question a lot myself recently. I am still in the works of rebuilding my motor and I am debating between a 2.3 and a 2.0. I have no extra costs between the two when it comes to the build so it's not like money is a deciding factor. I have almost an identical setup to @Stealth other than a built trans and maybe some different brands used but our turbo and power goals were relatively the same. This week alone 3 2.3L have left the scene. Justin completely parted out his 560whp ST and is currently doing a motor swap, (He is keeping the ST) then Stealth and KShat are now both parting out. I feel like going 2.3L will be a mistake now. :(
 

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I have been thinking about this question a lot myself recently. I am still in the works of rebuilding my motor and I am debating between a 2.3 and a 2.0. I have no extra costs between the two when it comes to the build so it's not like money is a deciding factor. I have almost an identical setup to @Stealth other than a built trans and maybe some different brands used but our turbo and power goals were relatively the same. This week alone 3 2.3L have left the scene. Justin completely parted out his 560whp ST and is currently doing a motor swap, (He is keeping the ST) then Stealth and KShat are now both parting out. I feel like going 2.3L will be a mistake now. :(
Don't get down few things came into play with mine. The un-drivability of the car for daily use. Wife wants an explorer, and i want an older muscle car to work on
 

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My thoughts are that it is all about give and take. Each mod gives something, but also takes something away. Generally a lot of these mods give speed but take away comfortableness. How far is too far really depends on how much you are really willing to sacrifice. It's sort of like buying a sport bike. You get a heck of a lot of speed but it is a terrible commuter. On the other hand, there are some people who make it work because they enjoy the experience. I know of a local guy in his 60's who still rides his Ducatti cross country. Would he be more comfortable on pretty much anything else? Sure. But to him it's worth it.

It may also be something truly learned with experience and time. I think most of us "thought" we were ok with the sacrifices, but they slowly wore down our tolerance below the point of worth. My advice would be to look at all the negative reviews of any potential mod you are doing. I find those are generally more honest than "this is the best" type of reviews. I also find it's a bit easier to get entranced with the good sides of the mod and completely overlook the bad. Look at what they said and try to put yourself in their shoes. Do you care about the negative things they mentioned? Will it bother you at all?
 
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