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So heading down yet another random rabbit hole between project write ups, answering PM's & wrangling a 5 year old monster I decided to dig deeper into LSPI, it's causes and possible prevention (mitigate not elimination).

I was going to do a full-blown write up but I stumbled across this set of videos that go into some very interesting details. Some of them I was aware of and some changed my mind about what I believed to be true.



Again not specifically discussing ST (or even Ford) but LSPI isn't just a Focus issue. I hope that some of this information will be beneficial to you. And the best part is you don't have to read one of my overly technical explanations with a mix of ridiculous humor 馃槣

Stay Safe!

J
 

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Very informative videos. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.

I've never heard of "Driven" brand oil.. Anyone used it or familiar with it?
 

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After watching the video I went to see the spec of my oil and this is what I discovered. It is what Ford recommend but now I am wondering what detergents are in it.


EDIT: Shell Lubricants - Oil And Energy. Later found this page which gives a description and features of the Shell Helix range. Looks like I will be swapping out to the
Helix Ultra X 5W-30
 

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Driven oils developed by Joe Gibbs Racing. I am assuming by the comments on the video that a multi use oil for gasoline and diesel engines is not recommended. They mention API SN Plus. There is now a SN P rating . They skipped O because of Canada lol.
 

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Very informative videos. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.

I've never heard of "Driven" brand oil.. Anyone used it or familiar with it?
I haven't heard of them before either. As the new standard becomes more widely available in different viscosity levels due to the increasing popularity of DI engines it my hope that cost for this oil goes down.

It was the detergent topic and the increased oil to fuel saturation with the higher ethanol contents that really peaked my interest.
 
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Summary from what I remember:

High zinc is only in Driver's brand break in oil. (Used to be in everything for flat tappet lifters).

Too full of oil is just as bad as too low.
1/2 quart overfill on the small block chevy v8 example increased running temps 40F because of crank whipping air in oil.

Said a myth to drive easy on break in oil. Recommended 2 separate break in oil changes on a rebuild, one very early and one at 400-500 miles.
If you dyno, you'll know the motor is broken in when power stops increasing, which is because of improved sealing and proper seating of piston rings.

Calcium-based, then sodium-based are most common detergent additives that also make oil emulsify quicker.
Magnesium-based is another alternative.
This is a big part of the SN Plus spec.

Need good detergent for less carbon buildup to keep chance of LSPI down - But also need to keep contaminates soluble.
Hard carbon also contributes to timing chain wear, aka stretch, which also impacts timing.

Extra oil in cylinder from fuel dilution reduces effective octane, also increasing chance of LSPI.

LSPI also greatly increases wear on rod bearings. Even if you've got good compression, your bearings could have less life left from a previous owner if they weren't aware of LSPI and to not romp on it in too low of a gear, especially 5 and 6 at normal highway speeds.

Oil analysis can be helpful a number of ways, helping determine when a motor is broken in and also status of bearing and other engine wear.

Driven recommends PEA chemistry like Techron for cleaning, and also sell their own brand with it.
Other, cheaper cleaners without PEA are largely a waste to use on a DI engine.

While methanol aux fuel helps with the carbon side of knock equation, it will make the fuel dilution side worse and require much more frequent oil changes.
Also moisture likes methanol in blow-by, leading to sooner emulsification point.
 

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Summary from what I remember:

High zinc is only in Driver's brand break in oil. (Used to be in everything for flat tappet lifters).

Too full of oil is just as bad as too low.
1/2 quart overfill on the small block chevy v8 example increased running temps 40F because of crank whipping air in oil.

Said a myth to drive easy on break in oil. Recommended 2 separate break in oil changes on a rebuild, one very early and one at 400-500 miles.
If you dyno, you'll know the motor is broken in when power stops increasing, which is because of improved sealing and proper seating of piston rings.

Calcium-based, then sodium-based are most common detergent additives that also make oil emulsify quicker.
Magnesium-based is another alternative.
This is a big part of the SN Plus spec.

Need good detergent for less carbon buildup to keep chance of LSPI down - But also need to keep contaminates soluble.
Hard carbon also contributes to timing chain wear, aka stretch, which also impacts timing.

Extra oil in cylinder from fuel dilution reduces effective octane, also increasing chance of LSPI.

LSPI also greatly increases wear on rod bearings. Even if you've got good compression, your bearings could have less life left from a previous owner if they weren't aware of LSPI and to not romp on it in too low of a gear, especially 5 and 6 at normal highway speeds.

Oil analysis can be helpful a number of ways, helping determine when a motor is broken in and also status of bearing and other engine wear.

Driven recommends PEA chemistry like Techron for cleaning, and also sell their own brand with it.
Other, cheaper cleaners without PEA are largely a waste to use on a DI engine.

While methanol aux fuel helps with the carbon side of knock equation, it will make the fuel dilution side worse and require much more frequent oil changes.
Also moisture likes methanol in blow-by, leading to sooner emulsification point.
I find some of this interesting, but I also find that people are trying to market their brands to push product out the door. Project Farm and others on YouTube have good breakdowns of Techron vs other cleaning agents. High PEA is certainly a factor to look for.

As far as oil, this seems like the same age old debate, "what oil should I use?" Motorcraft 5W-30 is API SN Plus rated as well, just an FYI.

(187) Is Techron better than Seafoam? Let's see the proof! - YouTube
 

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I've not heard anyone say it lately, but dino oil will hold more additives than synthetic.

One strategy for longer engine life on high hp builds could involve oil blends, if they will really hold more beneficial additives and not coke any known small oil passages.

Also if you're using more methanol, you probably want to shorten your oil change intervals anyways.
 

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The "in your crankcase" reality is more complicated than any controlled tests often promoted by some of the more recognizable premium brands.
 

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I've not heard anyone say it lately, but dino oil will hold more additives than synthetic.

One strategy for longer engine life on high hp builds could involve oil blends, if they will really hold more beneficial additives and not coke any known small oil passages.

Also if you're using more methanol, you probably want to shorten your oil change intervals anyways.
My bolding. Do you have any references for this? I used to cruise the BITOG forums a lot and have never heard that.
 

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It really looks like Amsoil has addressed this issue as well. Goes back to the GM dexos1 Gen2 rating.
I have been running Mobil1 oil that meets this spec for some time now. Of course this was an accidental excellence because until this video series I was uneducated on this subject with oil in mind.
Thx for the video series link. Very informative.
 

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It really looks like Amsoil has addressed this issue as well. Goes back to the GM dexos1 Gen2 rating.
I have been running Mobil1 oil that meets this spec for some time now. Of course this was an accidental excellence because until this video series I was uneducated on this subject with oil in mind.
Thx for the video series link. Very informative.
Been running Amsoil signature series in my vehicles for the last 20+ years and see no reason to change now. Expensive, yeah, but seems to work well.
 

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My bolding. Do you have any references for this? I used to cruise the BITOG forums a lot and have never heard that.
http://www.lelubricants.com/lit/news/White Papers/when_do_synthetic_lub.pdf

This isn't exactly what I remembered, but does have a chart showing limited solubility of additives with PAO.

The standard LE 5w30 was my overall favorite oil I used over the years in the 2004 forester for a few oil changes. Not the best for extreme cold or your wallet, tho.
 

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So heading down yet another random rabbit hole between project write ups, answering PM's & wrangling a 5 year old monster I decided to dig deeper into LSPI, it's causes and possible prevention (mitigate not elimination).

I was going to do a full-blown write up but I stumbled across this set of videos that go into some very interesting details. Some of them I was aware of and some changed my mind about what I believed to be true.



Again not specifically discussing ST (or even Ford) but LSPI isn't just a Focus issue. I hope that some of this information will be beneficial to you. And the best part is you don't have to read one of my overly technical explanations with a mix of ridiculous humor 馃槣

Stay Safe!

J
Thank you! I've been wondering what exactly LSPI besides that scary thing that makes me not smash my gas before 2500-3000 RPM. These guys explained it extremely well. Learned a lot about my engine from that.
 

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So if I understood the videos correctly some of the things that can be done to lower the risk of LSPI is to stay on top of your oil changes, use the correct rated GDI specific oil and regularly run the car with drive cycles that are long enough to cook off the water/ethanol/gas that might be absorbed by the oil? I feel like my commute is probably not long enough to accomplish that last one, but then thats just based on the oil temp gauge which I've never seen hit the middle position.

so far I've tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas... :p
 

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http://www.lelubricants.com/lit/news/White Papers/when_do_synthetic_lub.pdf

This isn't exactly what I remembered, but does have a chart showing limited solubility of additives with PAO.

The standard LE 5w30 was my overall favorite oil I used over the years in the 2004 forester for a few oil changes. Not the best for extreme cold or your wallet, tho.
Thanks for that; very informative and supplements what I've learned from BITOG. It was always my understanding that PAO base stocks didn't need as many additives due to its oxidation resistance.
 

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Synthetic needs less additives in general, especially from the oxidation and viscosity standpoints.

What the videos made me think about was it seems DI needs more detergents from the carbon buildup standpoint and that's a newer technical wall.

Carbon's not just an intake valve concern, because blow-by gets in the crankcase first before the PCV system.

The last I looked into synthetic blends, most only had 10-20% synthetic.

Wonder if a middle %age blend is possible to get more detergent additives and ability to keep contaminates suspended and filterable before the emulsification point?

The longer term oxidation and shear concerns with dino may be offset by a higher synthetic percentage and sticking with 5000ish OCIs instead of pushing higher as in a port fuel injected or carbureted car to take advantage of the longer synthetic life?

I'm guessing, not a real tribologist, but it seems plausible.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I also believe that it's time to begin a more serious look at more advanced surface coatings. Piston tops, combustion chambers, Valve face & fillers, and intake ports. If carbon can't stick less detergents are needed.
 
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Anybody try the newer ceramic snake oil additive? It's supposed to coat.

Then there's the plasma spray stuff, more for wear again. I think some high end engines were using it on cylinder bores, and Mazda used it in rotary engines?

I don't think the earlier Slick 50 PTFE additive and similar lived up to the hype.
 
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