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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So the past few days I've been having some trouble with my ignition corrections dipping real low at WOT and the farthest I've seen her at was around -5.75. I've attached a data log from today where I dip into the 4's. At this time I was on 89 and completely stock, installed new motorcraft plugs less then 200 miles ago all gapped at .32. My question is whether or not this is a serious problem and what steps I should take to find a cause. I constantly watch my APv3, AFR is good right round 11 at WOT. I've also read on here low quality fuel can cause ignitions corrections to hit negatives so today I tried to empty the tank and the filled up with 91 from a chevron. Any tips or advice is greatly welcomed.

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What was the air temperature when you were seeing the negative corrections? With the factory intercooler, it'll pull lots of timing when it's hot. What's your octane adjustment ratio?
When I was running the factory intercooler it wasn't uncommon to see the charge temps go up 60 degrees or more on a 3rd gear pull. On the stock tune it'll pull a lot of timing when it detects a knock, so it's not hard to get that much negative correction with high ambient temps and not so great fuel...
 
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What was the air temperature when you were seeing the negative corrections? With the factory intercooler, it'll pull lots of timing when it's hot. What's your octane adjustment ratio?
When I was running the factory intercooler it wasn't uncommon to see the charge temps go up 60 degrees or more on a 3rd gear pull. On the stock tune it'll pull a lot of timing when it detects a knock, so it's not hard to get that much negative correction with high ambient temps and not so great fuel...
This.

It also sounds like OP is using Cobb Stage 0 - just want to confirm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
What was the air temperature when you were seeing the negative corrections? With the factory intercooler, it'll pull lots of timing when it's hot. What's your octane adjustment ratio?
When I was running the factory intercooler it wasn't uncommon to see the charge temps go up 60 degrees or more on a 3rd gear pull. On the stock tune it'll pull a lot of timing when it detects a knock, so it's not hard to get that much negative correction with high ambient temps and not so great fuel...
My charge air temps were around 120-130F and my octane adjust ration has been staying at -0.52 but I'm hoping to see it change with the new fuel. Good to know about the charge air temps I've been eyeballing a CPE FMIC but that's going to take some time.
 

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My charge air temps were around 120-130F and my octane adjust ration has been staying at -0.52 but I'm hoping to see it change with the new fuel. Good to know about the charge air temps I've been eyeballing a CPE FMIC but that's going to take some time.
****, 120F, that is pretty high. You OAR should be almost constant around -1.00 you need to change gas.

Both the high charge temp and OAR are causing the issue here. I would try to get 91 octane gas if not 93. What station are you using for gas? The station can be a huge factor in gas quality, BP is my go to.

Going to stage one will most like not help the issue I'd stay stage 0 for now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
****, 120F, that is pretty high. You OAR should be almost constant around -1.00 you need to change gas.

Both the high charge temp and OAR are causing the issue here. I would try to get 91 octane gas if not 93. What station are you using for gas? The station can be a huge factor in gas quality, BP is my go to.

Going to stage one will most like not help the issue I'd stay stage 0 for now.
I'm in norcal... I went to a chevron and 91 is the highest available but will go to arco for the next fill up. I'll start to pay some attention to the charge tepms once up there. Thank you.
 

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Yeah you really need to upgrade the front mount and get the quality of that octane up.

Do not advance stages on your tuner until you get those items handled.
 
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and yes I'm on the stock stage 0. Would you think the stage 1 might lighten up on the negative corrections?
No, that will make it worse and put you in larger jeopardy of blowing your engine without proper mods.

Do you have access to any stations with E85 nearby? If so, add a gallon of E85 to your tank with your 91 - drive it for 15 minutes to allow it to mix, then see how corrections look.

Adding a gallon of E85 will boost your octane and help determine if it's poor quality fuel/low octane, which is probably one of your main culprits.

The other is your terrible charge air temps from the stock FMIC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Oh okay love the advice. Hadn't thought about mixing before but I just found a gas station near me possibly with e85, do you have any idea of a target ethanol % that would help. I'm brand new sorry!
 

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Just put a gallon of E85 in before filling up next time. You're not shooting for a specific E content, you're just bumping up the octane to see if those corrections go away. If they do, then it shows that you need to use higher octane fuel wherever you are able. It's more of a troubleshooting task as opposed to a long term fix, unless you just can't get good enough gas to stop the corrections.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
okay I'll go to that station and see if they actually carry e85. And for future reference will the gallon of e85 need to added before regular 91 gas is added?
 

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Not really a great fix there are a few things to think about for long term mixing of ethanol. Just a short term test. If the 91 checks out with a good OAR your fine to just run 91. Ethanol is more a short term solution to test gas.

Can be useful for road trips, but overall without a specific ethanol based tune it's best to find a gas station with quality gas.

Without getting into it to much ethanol burns at a different ratio than gasoline. Not an issue for testing, but wouldn't do it all the time all the time. Now do keep in mind that typical 93 uses ethanol to bump up the octane which is accounted for in the tune, but I haven't seen that done for 91 where I'm from.
 

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Fueling is definitely something to read up on. It changes by state and even by season(winter gas can be pretty crappy with additives to stop it freezing.) This forum has some posts on gasoline and ethanol based fuels but otherwise there are some great articles out there for it. You really don't have to look focus st related articles or posts, it's not really car specific.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Yeah you really need to upgrade the front mount and get the quality of that octane up.

Do not advance stages on your tuner until you get those items handled.
Will definitely do that. Once I get the front mount in and healthy fuel would I be looking for a decrease in knocks(during WOT) or would I be looking to eliminate them altogether?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Fueling is definitely something to read up on. It changes by state and even by season(winter gas can be pretty crappy with additives to stop it freezing.) This forum has some posts on gasoline and ethanol based fuels but otherwise there are some great articles out there for it. You really don't have to look focus st related articles or posts, it's not really car specific.
my only concern is having ethanol available. If the station I'm suspecting has it doesn't have ethanol I'd be looking a cool 50 mile drive.
 

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Will definitely do that. Once I get the front mount in and healthy fuel would I be looking for a decrease in knocks or would I be looking to eliminate them altogether?
Decrease to a healthy level. There will always be a degree of knock, you can't eliminate it. Some knock is normal, and is how the engine knows to make corrections.
 

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Will definitely do that. Once I get the front mount in and healthy fuel would I be looking for a decrease in knocks(during WOT) or would I be looking to eliminate them altogether?
With a stage 0 tune on good 91 octane fuel and practically any intercooler besides stock, you should virtually eliminate them. However, the stage 0 tune, if it hears any knock, will pull gobs of timing.

ETA:. I have a very conservative JST tune, and when it's below 70 degrees ambient I hardly get anything besides minor corrections (-0.5). Once the temps get past 90, though, I start seeing -1.0 corrections or so on multiple cylinders. It still never moves the oar from -1.0, so the computer is fine with it.
 

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Good to know. Intercooler will be the next mod and thank you to everyone for your guys knowledge on the subject.
The CPe intercooler you mentiond earlier is a nice unit, but there are others that will do the same job at a much reduced price. The only problem is finding them in stock...


 
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