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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, me again.

I figured I'd ask a more general question. Is something wrong with my fathers car that severely limits the ability of it? What I mean by it, is that we now have a stratified tune on the vehicle, which is amazing by the way. The all around feel of the car is way more refined and it pulls very well, we love it; though the main question is, why has nothing increased the performance of this vehicle? You'd think after dumping over 2k into it that this car would be mildly faster, but it just isn't. I see people with tunes alone running way quicker times in the 1/4 then we ever have. How is it possible? How can a car with all bolt ons, minus a big turbo be slower than just a tune - I'm not talking in general, because we whipped the hell out of a tune only ST on the highway - so power is there, but in 1/4 mile we've never achieved anything better than a 14.13 @ 100 mph - that was with a 2.16 60'. We ran again today, roughly the same temp, car sat for an hour like last time etc. best - [email protected] mph with a 2.02 60'. Why is it going backwards? why is it so all over the place? Should he just give up on this vehicle, cave and buy an RS or a Ecoboost Mustang?

I'm wondering if the performance is just down on his car and if it really has something wrong with it that needs to be addressed. According to the datalogs nothing is though... the car just doesn't feel "fast". If anyone has a suggestion, this again is not 1/4 mile only but in general, please let me know.
 

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A lot of factors come into 1/4 mile times: driver, reaction time, tires, and power delivery.

Driver could be dealing with traction issues, which is common especially if better tires aren't being used. Tires could be more worn down if these are the same ones you have been using since you achieved the 14.13 time. Worn suspension can also be a cause of slower times, especially if its stock suspension. More power on a front wheel drive car such as ours is going to have traction issues unless its handled with better tires an suspension. I don't know mods exactly have been done but suspension and tires affect cars a lot in drag racing.

Also, the tune could possibly in an economy mode. Check the boost pressure at 100% throttle. The economy mode sets it at max 15 PSI so that could be a potential cause. I'd talk to the tuner again and see whats going on. A dyno could help you also if power delivery is off and if you are making the power that a tune and bolt ons should be producing. The fuel that the tune was made for could be affecting it ie. if its tuned for 87 octane but you're running 93 or vice versa.

Hope this helps.
 

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A lot of factors come into 1/4 mile times: driver, reaction time, tires, and power delivery.

Driver could be dealing with traction issues, which is common especially if better tires aren't being used. Tires could be more worn down if these are the same ones you have been using since you achieved the 14.13 time. Worn suspension can also be a cause of slower times, especially if its stock suspension. More power on a front wheel drive car such as ours is going to have traction issues unless its handled with better tires an suspension. I don't know mods exactly have been done but suspension and tires affect cars a lot in drag racing.

Also, the tune could possibly in an economy mode. Check the boost pressure at 100% throttle. The economy mode sets it at max 15 PSI so that could be a potential cause. I'd talk to the tuner again and see whats going on. A dyno could help you also if power delivery is off and if you are making the power that a tune and bolt ons should be producing. The fuel that the tune was made for could be affecting it ie. if its tuned for 87 octane but you're running 93 or vice versa.

Hope this helps.
Everything in this is true. I'd work on launches and get better tires if his aren't high quality. I will say that it is 100% NOT what MK3Stef said about economy mode because you wouldn't put down a 14.3 with only 15psi.
 

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I'm not talking in general, because we whipped the hell out of a tune only ST on the highway

If you have power on rolls that is par/greater than another tuned ST then its not the car. driver mod/tires. It's a FWD car with enough power to light up the tires stock. If you haven't gotten slicks/ dedicated track tires at this point then you will go backwards because the tires will just break loose. Try flashing to the Stage 0 OTS tune (So you still have launch control) and take a run. If you do better than with the tune then it is just you learning how to get the power to the ground.
 

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I completely agree with what the others have said here. Better tires. Better launches. Better shift points. You also have to remember that these cars aren't really that responsive to mods, your biggest jump in performance will be from stock to stage 1 (Tune + High flow filter). After that most mods are for safety (FMIC) or set up for big turbo (3" Downpipe).
 

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I had the same issue when I went to the strip. My biggest issue was holding traction when I was launching. Since, then I have swapped out the Cobb rmm for cpe stage 2 mount and added cpe upper mounts. Hopefully this summer with a full custom tune and a set of R888s I will get into the 13s.
 

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it also wouldn't hurt to take a look at an LSD. more power means more traction needs as previously stated and there is no better way to gain traction than an LSD.
 

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As far as the track day thing goes, what is more than likely happening to cause a worse 1/4 time with a better 60' time is heat soak with the stock intercooler. My guess is you were running a lot hotter on the slower run, which pulls a load of timing, and kills power.

One member here posted his stock dyno runs - one cool and one with a heatsoaked run and his hp at 5500rpm went from 240whp to 190whp. You could see the dip on the HP curve where the engine started pulling timing at 5200rpm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Thanks for the input -

The car cools off heavily during runs, the slower runs were done with the car sitting for no less than 1 hour (someone wrecked at the top end of the track going around 170)

The major problem is I would not say driver mod, I have been drag racing for over 16 years. I'm used to FWD as I used to points race a FWD turbo civic hatchback that made a whole lot more power than this does, and a bunch of 10-11 second rwd mustangs.

The car as I said seems to be going backwards. There should be no reason a full bolt on ST runs a 14.3 @ 96 mph, which is 4 mph slower than the fastest time on a hotter day with a worse 60' time. 2.0 to a 2.1, and it ends up being .2 slower? never seen that in my life, ever.

The only other option I can see is the possibility of fully replacing that cobb rmm and going with a CPE 2 piece and engine mounts, finding a tire that will FIT the front of this car and going - but if it's not going to do anything, why waste the money? This is the only car I have ever seen where you do any modification to and it goes slower.

The tune was done by Stratified, and it works beautifully and it's not in economy mode. Included is the 3rd gear pull on that day down the track which if anyone wants to look at, I certainly can't find anything wrong with.

datazap.me | blaker1983 | Log 1481487661

as you can see, the charge temp is quite low, and everything else seems well within the parameters.


There is the video of the run, as you can hear there is very minimal wheel spin etc. Those shifts were between 5500-5800 rpm.


BTW - the car has the following -

Mountune Low Restriction Intake, Mountune Symposer Delete, Mountune Uprated Recirculation Valve, Cobb catted downpipe, full exhaust with only a M80 resonator, Levels FMIC, MBRP charge pipes, Cobb RMM, colder plugs, Accessport with Stratified tune.
 

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Thanks for the input -

The car cools off heavily during runs, the slower runs were done with the car sitting for no less than 1 hour (someone wrecked at the top end of the track going around 170)

The major problem is I would not say driver mod, I have been drag racing for over 16 years. I'm used to FWD as I used to points race a FWD turbo civic hatchback that made a whole lot more power than this does, and a bunch of 10-11 second rwd mustangs.

The car as I said seems to be going backwards. There should be no reason a full bolt on ST runs a 14.3 @ 96 mph, which is 4 mph slower than the fastest time on a hotter day with a worse 60' time. 2.0 to a 2.1, and it ends up being .2 slower? never seen that in my life, ever.

The only other option I can see is the possibility of fully replacing that cobb rmm and going with a CPE 2 piece and engine mounts, finding a tire that will FIT the front of this car and going - but if it's not going to do anything, why waste the money? This is the only car I have ever seen where you do any modification to and it goes slower.

The tune was done by Stratified, and it works beautifully and it's not in economy mode. Included is the 3rd gear pull on that day down the track which if anyone wants to look at, I certainly can't find anything wrong with.

datazap.me | blaker1983 | Log 1481487661

as you can see, the charge temp is quite low, and everything else seems well within the parameters.


There is the video of the run, as you can hear there is very minimal wheel spin etc. Those shifts were between 5500-5800 rpm.


BTW - the car has the following -

Mountune Low Restriction Intake, Mountune Symposer Delete, Mountune Uprated Recirculation Valve, Cobb catted downpipe, full exhaust with only a M80 resonator, Levels FMIC, MBRP charge pipes, Cobb RMM, colder plugs, Accessport with Stratified tune.

All things considered, this was a good run. I'd say no driver mod needed. You hooked up nicely for an open diff.

That's weird man, I don't know. Was there any more weight in the car on the slow run? .17" is so slight you could chalk that up to a lot of things if it wasn't carrying extra weight.


I can tell you the reason it FEELS slow is because your turbo is running out of air. On our turbos you can see the boost lowering to 14psi as the wgdc hits 100%. Of course I'm sure you know this already. When I hit this point in my car, nothing made it feel faster until I got a big turbo. While Stratified's tune on my more or less stock setup made it feel more alive, you can only do so much with a turbo that small. Now, when you go big turbo, it feels FASTER because the boost pressure increases to 26psi till redline instead of hitting peak 21psi at 3000rpm when you're not getting traction then tapering back down.



As far as the motor mounts, that's not gonna do too much since you're hooking up surprisingly decently with your driver mod anyhow. Trust me I was there. I did a write up on my experience with my LSD and how I wish I would have done that first before anything - check it out in the performance section. If you have the means, and you want more traction, go that route, you will not regret it.
 

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Is this the same person that asked before? Well if it is my answers are still the same.

1) Reaction time has nothing to do with it. You can sit there for 30 seconds or whenever the starter gets tired of you sitting there. You can also redlight, but you can't roll the beams otherwise everything will be off time wise.

2) [email protected] isn't but if it's so-called "Stage 3" then that is bad. As I suggested before, unless you do Sistomper's coolant mod, you will have to wait min 45 mins between runs and this has nothing to do with the inter-cooler.

It has everything to with modern cars. They run max timing as much as the fuel and coolant/oil temps allow. Once it goes over a threshold it will pull down timing just as aggressively as it adds it when conditions are ideal.

3) It should run faster on street tires but you might have a dog. This is why I don't change many things without knowing how one thing impacted the car. At no time have you mentioned much boost your running or if you have tested for a boost leak.

With the change in charge pipes (not needed) and install of the intercooler you could have possibly created a boost leak. It won't be noticeable with all the racket from the exhaust. As I mentioned before I had boost leaks with my SRT-4 and they were not noticeable. The car just wouldn't trap like what is happening to you. I ended up replacing all the vacuum lines (bought the car used) and replacing all the clamps with t-bolts.

Car responded with [email protected] pass at 3,500+ feet + 90 plus degree summer day. It eventually went [email protected] mph with 3" turbo back, Stage 1 PCM, Super AFC to lean out the mixture, Wastegate spike and hold 18 psi, all on 23" tall M&H slicks.

Personally I think you all are suckers going to the track on street tires, it doesn't prove jack diddly other that you're being cheap or believe somehow it translates to what the car will do from a "dig" during Stop Light Gran Prix.

No proof of the latter, just speculation at best.

Get some 17" wheels and if you must have a threaded tire get Mickey Thompson ET Street R drag radials. A ton better than Nittos; the only advantage to those is they cost less. If you are going to hit the track often, buy slicks and don't look back.

Again times in the sig, TUNE only. There's few tenths in improving shift points and 2 or so tenths in taking out the seats. Under the right conditions I think it will run 13.0-13.1
 

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All things considered, this was a good run. I'd say no driver mod needed. You hooked up nicely for an open diff.

That's weird man, I don't know. Was there any more weight in the car on the slow run? .17" is so slight you could chalk that up to a lot of things if it wasn't carrying extra weight.


I can tell you the reason it FEELS slow is because your turbo is running out of air. On our turbos you can see the boost lowering to 14psi as the wgdc hits 100%. Of course I'm sure you know this already. When I hit this point in my car, nothing made it feel faster until I got a big turbo. While Stratified's tune on my more or less stock setup made it feel more alive, you can only do so much with a turbo that small. Now, when you go big turbo, it feels FASTER because the boost pressure increases to 26psi till redline instead of hitting peak 21psi at 3000rpm when you're not getting traction then tapering back down.



As far as the motor mounts, that's not gonna do too much since you're hooking up surprisingly decently with your driver mod anyhow. Trust me I was there. I did a write up on my experience with my LSD and how I wish I would have done that first before anything - check it out in the performance section. If you have the means, and you want more traction, go that route, you will not regret it.
100% Duty Cycle, Stock Pre-load = 23 psi, down to 13 psi @ 4000 rpm = [email protected] (E40)

100% Duty Cycle, Max Pre-load = 25 psi, 16 psi @ 4800 rpm = [email protected] (Terrible 60') less than a tenth behind. Ran [email protected] timing pulled because of coolant temp over 210 on a slightly better 1.81 60'

As I said shift sooner (5800) should easily run 102-103 mph. Take some weight out, maybe 104 mph. 100% throttle off the 2 step/launch control (4300 rpm).
 

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Do a kam reset also i ran a 12.808 at 110. Your shifts are a bit slow and ur lanch is lack luster. Get ur self some drag radials and u will see what it does

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