[bobby9621]

With my CP-E setup I had to lower my boost from 24 to 22. Not sure if this is what you mean.

 

[shogodz89]

With my CP-E setup I had to lower my boost from 24 to 22. Not sure if this is what you mean.

No. I mean the actual drop in pressure from inlet to outlet. That is what determines efficiency and how much power you gain..

If you are losing 5psi (example) and your tune is set for 25psi, your turbo will have to put out 30psi to make up the difference set by the computer. It will be beyond its efficiency range and just be heating up the air for no reason and possibly doing damage to the turbo. You will actually lose power in that instance.

 

[14STred]

Okay since no one else is bringing it up, I will.

Lower charge temps from your IC does not translate to more power. Pressure loss is key!

These comparisons temp drops are useless. You can have a core that cools 10 degrees better than another but if you are losing 1-2psi then you are pissing power out the window.

With that said, I'd like to see pressure drop comparisons between these cores. That is the only relevant information for determining IC efficiency.

The Godspeed FMIC has a pressure drop of 0.2-0.5psi @15psi and 2-3psi@ 35psi. That isn't too bad but it isn't great either.

I don't know what the CXR core does because they dont list it on their site

I agree to a point. Most everyone understands that they will not pick up power from changing their IC. But, if an upgraded IC keeps temps below the power loss threshold then you are ahead, and that is what people are after. And folks are specifically posting their logs to show the temp increases.

Yes, pressure loss is vitally important and fortunately it looks like everyone has been able to maintain their prior boost levels. However no one has conducted a proper test of pressure loss, by measuring boost levels pre/post IC.

 

[casanova1012]

So if the stock intercooler is that crap, is anyone running a tune with the stock fmic? Im sure its safe but i dont wanna blow my engine when i do get one. Not willing to drop hat much cheddar on an fmic just yet

 

[bobby9621]

You would let your tuner know what mods u have

 

[14STred]

So if the stock intercooler is that crap, is anyone running a tune with the stock fmic? Im sure its safe but i dont wanna blow my engine when i do get one. Not willing to drop hat much cheddar on an fmic just yet

Yes, people are running a tune with the stock IC, however it will heat soak really fast and cost you power. A diy IC is affordable compared to the off the shelf units. I spent $389 including shipping charges for my diy, or you can pay $1100.

 

[its silver bob]

Ok question cuz I don't know. Is mass flow a calculated number or is it a true raw reading?

 

[Develand]

From what i have read and been told, you want to get an intercooler that can handle 50-100hp more then you have. Unless you are going huge, a 600hp fmic is worthless on our cars.

 

[JesStrange]

So if the stock intercooler is that crap, is anyone running a tune with the stock fmic? Im sure its safe but i dont wanna blow my engine when i do get one. Not willing to drop hat much cheddar on an fmic just yet

I'm running Stage 1 Cobb tube on 93 Octane. No issues. I have the v2 AP and since reading up all the intercooler threads (not too keen on tuning so I'm learning) I have been watching charge air temp and ambient temp a lot. There is a substantial increase in temp when you are getting down on it.

Cobbs tune description shows the stock fmic and "vehicle virtually stock" as fine for the Stage 1 tune, and it does liven the car up a lot. Stage 2 requires a fmic (Cobb states it requires the Cobb fmic but there are plenty of people running other intercoolers and DIY setups with that tune) I am not sure about other tuners but you can get custom tuning done. General Consensus appears that the stock fmic is not good for much beyond Stock or Stage 1.

 

[shogodz89]

From what i have read and been told, you want to get an intercooler that can handle 50-100hp more then you have. Unless you are going huge, a 600hp fmic is worthless on our cars.

Generally that is true. Too large of a core will not benefit you as much as a properly sized core.

 

[focus pilot]

and proper sized cores don't always fit in the available space. so you must compromise

 

[Silver_Shooter]

I'll throw my $128 intercooler in the mix, from my CXR DIY project. This one is close to the starting temp that you guys were running.

CXR DIY- log starting temp 37.2, 6015 RPM in third gear temp:40.3... 3.1* RISE over a third gear pull
http://datazap.me/u/silver/spark-tuning-hit-ceiling?log=0&data=2-4-5

And the OP can feel free to add it to the OP, it's not copyrighted

It's a cool comparison and all, but there are a lot of other variables not accounted for. I'm running 24psi down low.

We need to see some logs from guys running the DIY set ups too.

ATP FMIC: Cobb Stage 2, Cobb Intake

datazap.me | stainlineho | ATP FMIC 3-4 Shift Cobb Stage 2

~20* RISE in charge temps over 3rd gear pull and shift to 4th. I need to get a full 4th gear pull log.

This pull was made at 63F day according to ST temp. I also logged IAT and it starts around 71F and go down to ambiet during the pull. You guys think a FRPP intake snorkel would would improve that?

 

[PacDawg]

I wonder how much other mods such as charge pipes, DP, exhaust and step colder plugs will effect CAT RISE. I need to do a datalog to see how my CAT are with my mods to compare to stainlinho.

 

[1chrisb]

Nothing but the intercooler will affect CAT rise, because the only thing you're measuring is how efficient the intercooler is.

 

[rader1]

Okay since no one else is bringing it up, I will.

Lower charge temps from your IC does not translate to more power. Pressure loss is key!

These comparisons temp drops are useless. You can have a core that cools 10 degrees better than another but if you are losing 1-2psi then you are pissing power out the window.

With that said, I'd like to see pressure drop comparisons between these cores. That is the only relevant information for determining IC efficiency.

The Godspeed FMIC has a pressure drop of 0.2-0.5psi @15psi and 2-3psi@ 35psi. That isn't too bad but it isn't great either.

I don't know what the CXR core does because they dont list it on their site

Not entirely accurate. Pressure drop is JUST one of the factors to consider. Since no one has mounted a manual boost gauge on the hot and cold side of the IC we don't know what kind of pressure drop people running intercoolers on an ST are really seeing. Seeing as that's the case the best we have to go by bright now is comparing before and after WGDC of a car running similar boost in similar conditions.

Looking at DAM's log pre and post CP-e it looks like it is requiring no more WGDC to hit the same targets.

datazap.me | DAM | 3rd gear old monterey with cobb intake

datazap.me | DAM | 3rd gear stage 2 v201 cai+fmic 55 degrees. windy gap mountain

 

[PacDawg]

Wow, even with 55 degree weather DAM's CAT are steady. I'm jealous. Just did a pull with 60 degree ambient, from 2500 to 6000 and there was about 11* rise on my ATP IC. Messed up on log so can't post.

 

[Silver_Shooter]

This thread got buried quick Figured it would be a good idea to post a hot air and cold air log to see the effect.

CXR DIY- log starting temp 37.2, 6015 RPM in third gear temp:40.3... 3.1* RISE over a third gear pull
Cold air charge temp

CXR DIY- log starting temp 79.11, 6019 RPM in third gear temp:84.4... 5.4* RISE over a third gear pull
Hot air charge temp

The hot air log actually goes to 6800rpm, but the above numbers are consistent with the OP.

 

[focus13st]

Silver I added your CXR core to the OP,

Any other DIY core guys get the data so we can add it


2013 TS3 FSWERKS tuned

 

[Cnstman]

thanks silver shooter. where is the temp sensor located, on the IC or in the elbow?

 

[Silver_Shooter]

Mine is on the end tank.
Here