Whats wrong with the stock intercooler? Is it that shiitt?

 

Over four 4th gear road pulls with Randy's AP 91 tune, intake pipe, green filter, and stock IC I averaged a 55* rise.....so yeah it is

 

Stock intercooler is a joke


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Okay since no one else is bringing it up, I will.

Lower charge temps from your IC does not translate to more power. Pressure loss is key!

These comparisons temp drops are useless. You can have a core that cools 10 degrees better than another but if you are losing 1-2psi then you are pissing power out the window.

With that said, I'd like to see pressure drop comparisons between these cores. That is the only relevant information for determining IC efficiency.

The Godspeed FMIC has a pressure drop of 0.2-0.5psi @15psi and 2-3psi@ 35psi. That isn't too bad but it isn't great either.

I don't know what the CXR core does because they dont list it on their site

 

I agree to a point. Most everyone understands that they will not pick up power from changing their IC. But, if an upgraded IC keeps temps below the power loss threshold then you are ahead, and that is what people are after. And folks are specifically posting their logs to show the temp increases.

Yes, pressure loss is vitally important and fortunately it looks like everyone has been able to maintain their prior boost levels. However no one has conducted a proper test of pressure loss, by measuring boost levels pre/post IC.

 

The GSP intercooler sees an average increase in CAT of about 10-13 degrees. It keeps the temps nice and low while also maintaining some decent efficiency.

MAP sensor location also matters as I have just found out. My GSP core has the MAP sensor mounted to the end tank while every other one I've built for people has it mounted to the outlet. The result is that I see 20 degrees above ambient during a full 4th gear pull while others have seen only 10 degree increases. Food for thought.

 

With my CP-E setup I had to lower my boost from 24 to 22. Not sure if this is what you mean.

 

No. I mean the actual drop in pressure from inlet to outlet. That is what determines efficiency and how much power you gain..

If you are losing 5psi (example) and your tune is set for 25psi, your turbo will have to put out 30psi to make up the difference set by the computer. It will be beyond its efficiency range and just be heating up the air for no reason and possibly doing damage to the turbo. You will actually lose power in that instance.

 

So if the stock intercooler is that crap, is anyone running a tune with the stock fmic? Im sure its safe but i dont wanna blow my engine when i do get one. Not willing to drop hat much cheddar on an fmic just yet

 

Yes, people are running a tune with the stock IC, however it will heat soak really fast and cost you power. A diy IC is affordable compared to the off the shelf units. I spent $389 including shipping charges for my diy, or you can pay $1100.

 

You would let your tuner know what mods u have

 

Ok question cuz I don't know. Is mass flow a calculated number or is it a true raw reading?

 

From what i have read and been told, you want to get an intercooler that can handle 50-100hp more then you have. Unless you are going huge, a 600hp fmic is worthless on our cars.

 

Generally that is true. Too large of a core will not benefit you as much as a properly sized core.

 

and proper sized cores don't always fit in the available space. so you must compromise

 

I wonder how much other mods such as charge pipes, DP, exhaust and step colder plugs will effect CAT RISE. I need to do a datalog to see how my CAT are with my mods to compare to stainlinho.

 

Nothing but the intercooler will affect CAT rise, because the only thing you're measuring is how efficient the intercooler is.

 

Wow, even with 55 degree weather DAM's CAT are steady. I'm jealous. Just did a pull with 60 degree ambient, from 2500 to 6000 and there was about 11* rise on my ATP IC. Messed up on log so can't post.

 

This thread got buried quick Figured it would be a good idea to post a hot air and cold air log to see the effect.

CXR DIY- log starting temp 37.2, 6015 RPM in third gear temp:40.3... 3.1* RISE over a third gear pull
Cold air charge temp

CXR DIY- log starting temp 79.11, 6019 RPM in third gear temp:84.4... 5.4* RISE over a third gear pull
Hot air charge temp

The hot air log actually goes to 6800rpm, but the above numbers are consistent with the OP.

 

Silver I added your CXR core to the OP,

Any other DIY core guys get the data so we can add it


2013 TS3 FSWERKS tuned

 

thanks silver shooter. where is the temp sensor located, on the IC or in the elbow?

 

Do you guys think having the sensor located on the elbow show more of a CAT rise versus the sensor on the endtank?

 

Mine is on the end tank.
Here

 

My link is in post #24 showing my 4th gear run producing a 15.2 degree rise after a good heat soaking from the four previous back to back pulls.

Correct me if I am wrong: I would assume a 4th gear pull generates more heat than a 3rd gear pull as the load is greater and it takes more time to complete the run? So a third gear run would usually show less heat being produced than a 4th gear run??

 

Probably, but everyone had 3rd gear logs available, so for consistency that's what were using, 3 rd gear at 6k rpms for the High temp reading


If everyone wants to send me 3rd and 4th gear logs, I could arrange it all in an excel sheet for easy quick reference...




2013 TS3 FSWERKS tuned

 

So the CXR DIY IC is pretty decent.

 

Appears to be up there with the Cobb and cpe units


2013 TS3 FSWERKS tuned

 

Treadstone TR8 less than 2 PSI at max flow, TR8L 1.5 PSI at max flow.

-Overall lenght 28"
-2.5" inlet/outlet
-750 CFM flow rate
-500 HP efficient
-Less than 2psi pressure drop at max flow

NEW ITEM, TR8LLower pressure drop TR8 intercooler. This intercooler has a less dense internal fin structure(straight fin design) than our standard TR8 and is good for higher HP applications 575HP at only 1.5psi drop. This is the intercooler that we now give in the Turbonetics 350z and G35 Turbonetics turbo kits. Core length is 2" longer @ 24". More suited for the V6 applications, were boost pressure is kept low, with higher flow rates.

 

all these logs are moot unless you measure pressure drop. Just because a IC shows a lower rise in temp, doesn't mean its a better core, what if its highly restrictive? Power numbers for each would be helpful as well as the fore mentioned pressure drop. Best way to do it would be same car same dyno same day same conditions....

 

This x 1000

So Kevin, when can we bring some of the GSP kitted cars to the shop and get some real results?

 

I can get some data on that when I get more time with GNocides car, but from what I have seen so far there isn't a big difference in rise, fall, or soak.

 

Are you guys near Englishtown? I'd be up for a road trip, test and tune, and dyno.

 

my shop is 30 mins from englishtown south.

 

Cobb surgeline meet we might be able to get a Cobb and levels car on the dyno


2013 TS3 FSWERKS tuned

 

if something is .1 or 10% more efficient than the next brand?- i dont have the dyno or science to prove and im not sure it would make that much of a performance VS money SPENT difference anyway.
so..
i go off of data logs to compare if the change made was good for the car.
i use the track numbers as a comparative performance statistic vs whats out there.(same and different brands)
i consider how much money was spent to achieve those same results.

then i conclude if the right choice was made.
and that is the best (insert your part here)

 

Here is my log showing my rise with ATP with shroud removed. About 11* rise. Not much to brag about but much better than stock at least. OP, maybe you can add on original page. Mods are on my signature.

datazap.me | pacdawg | Cobb OTS Stage 3