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I think I'm done.

16K views 111 replies 31 participants last post by  HoboST 
#1 ·
So I've made a few posts with issues I've been having and haven't gotten any responses yet unfortunately. Not an issue now however because the dealer has found the problem. 2014 ST w/ 24k on the odo and it is still under warranty. Earlier this year I installed a green filter and did it step by step. Everything ran great for the last 9 or so months I've had it installed (I was deployed for 4 however). Until recently. I started up the ST to go into work and noticed that it instantly went to below 1k RPMs like it does when it's warmed up, however, this was a cold start. I pressed slightly on the accelerator and the waste gate on the blow off valve stuck open and was just blowing air out of it. Took my mother's truck to work and took the ST into the dealership the next morning.

This is the second time I've taken it in for this problem now. Also, I put the OEM air filter back on before I took it back in for the second time. Got and call from the dealer saying they found dirt and sand in the inlet tube that goes to the turbo and because I had the green filter on it before that they couldn't warranty anything. They said they could tear it down and attempt to clean it out but it would cost me $360. Told them to go ahead and do that.

Get a call back saying that the seals on the turbo are toast pretty much and that it needs a new turbo now... quoted me at $1550. Told them to fix it. At this point I'm pretty fed up with this car. Get another call that afternoon saying that what he quoted me wasn't correct.... the $1550 was just labor. Parts were going to be $2000. $3500 for an apparent bad install of a $50 part. No warranty. He stopped the work and I am in the middle of trying to figure out what to do. He sent me a screenshot of the parts and their cost. I checked them via part number at the blue Springs ford website and they seem to be charging me about 150% of MSRP. They want $911 for the turbo itself and online it's $606.

Would it be possible to take the ST to another dealership with the OEM filter on it and possibly get it done under warranty? Or is my car in the Ford system as having aftermarket parts and a big DO NOT WARRANTY stamp on it?


Help? Thanks.
 
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#2 ·
I realize this is a vague answer, but here goes.

It really depends on the dealership. Some dealerships wont work on your modified car will deny warranty but not flag you, others will flag you for having a lowering springs, a very few dont care if you come in with a souped up car and will try to work with you. I would try taking it by another dealer and seeing what kind of reaction you get. You might even put the stock filter back in before you do that, it will help find out if the other dealer flagged you

You might also if you have the mechanical skill consider this as an opportunity to simply pick up a bigger turbo install it yourself and say f the warranty. So far the warranty for me at least has not covered jack Sh@!* of anything that has gone wrong with the car. If its an extended warranty and not the factory warranty you might even be able to cancel the warranty and get some money back to apply to the car balance and or turbo. Note this is coming from someone who avoids the dealers and doesn't mind having the car down for a week or two, so your thoughts may vary.
 
#3 ·
Thank you for your help! The OEM filter is currently on the car as well. I have lowering springs and spacers and I took it in a couple months ago to have some front end stuff done. They fixed everything under warranty. They've been helpful in the past.

As far as picking up a new turbo.... my wife would kill me. I don't have the tools or skills to do this myself and I am about 99% sure I am getting rid of this car. I've had so many issues with it and I have 0 confidence in it getting me or my wife somewhere without issue. It's not practical and is only going to cost me more money down the road.

I've had a lot of fun with the ST but it's a money pit now. I get one thing fixed and then something else goes wrong.
 
#4 ·
I'd recommend bringing your car to another dealership that isn't under the same owner. You might get lucky and they may take care of you. There really isn't any negative here.

If you get stuck with eating the cost for the turbo. Tell the dealership you'll purchase the turbo if they can match the online price, or you're going to buy it online and bring it to them to fix or someone else. They will be making money on you regardless so they'd be foolish to turn you away unless their service is packed and they have more profitable jobs out there.

Keep in mind that if in fact your turbo was sucking in silica (sand or whatever) there's a chance it coated your intercooler pipes and intercooler core. Unfortunately this also means your engine could have been ingesting some grit for a while and cause potentially some damage.

I had a supercharged car a few years ago and my K&N filter decided to tear on the bottom side of the filters cotton pleat. I had blackstone run a random oil analysis and they said my silica level were significantly higher than normal and the engine was ingesting air from an unfiltered source some where (vacuum leak, bad filter, ect). Well upon seeing the results I removed my air filter and sure enough the bottom of the filter was torn. Who knows how long the car was ingesting air from an unfiltered source but I ran it for another 5+ years and had no issues.

This is one reason why the standard paper filters that motorcraft uses are better because they are more durable in my opinion and they get tossed every 3 years or 30k miles or so in my car. Sure you can buy cheaper filters but in the years I've repaired cars, the motorcraft replacement parts seem to outlast most other aftermarket parts.
 
#5 ·
JJ,

Thanks! The dealership guy said they tested the compression on the engine and it was good. So thankfully the engine should be good. I looked at the green filter when I took it out and it looked fine. No tears or anything.
 
#6 ·
Are you on our vegas page? which dealer? PM me if you need to since we do have some members here that work at dealerships

https://www.facebook.com/groups/810786265667891/

At that point id just looking into a Big Turbo upgrade.. its going to be the same money.. or better yet buy the turbo and get one of us to install it...
 
#7 ·
I'll send you a PM. No big turbo for me. The ST has been fun but it's gonna be traded in or sold to someone so it can be in a better home with someone who has time and money to tinker.
 
#8 ·
yeah PM me.. if thats the case id look at a stock turbo one of the BT guys are selling on here.. picked up for 150-250$ and on your way.. hardest part of swaping the turbo is getting that damn Vband off the downpipe
 
#11 ·
First of all i am very familier with the Magnuson moss act. They cannot void ur warranty just because of and air intake and lowering springs. U did not modifiy the motor ie tune or change out cams or turbo. Also our cars have a 50k mile warranty on the power train which includes engine and transmission and turbo. Call ford corporation direct speak to one of there reps and state that the Magnusson moss act protect you from what the dealer is trying to do.good luck. I hate scummy dealers.

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#15 ·
IANAL but pretty sure that if they can suggest a causal relation between failure and the air filter (which they know was changed... and the issue is literally due to improper filtering) they'd have a relatively solid denial case.


I'd still take it somewhere else and hope for the best
 
#13 ·
My opinion is that you should ditch it. I would go a different route than the dealer you are at now though. I would tell them you are out of money, and ask them to have mercy on you for the work already done. Pay your bill while telling them how much you appreciate the break on the bill even though you can't drive the car. Tow it from the dealer. The point is, you owe them for the work your authorized anyway. You want to leave as quietly as possible so they will be likely to give you a bill and not flag your warranty in the Ford service system.

Why didn't they try for a warranty claim, they still could have gotten paid? Why didn't they ask Ford for a customer satisfaction assistance? Why didn't they finish the diagnosis the first time? Why are the prices so high? Why can't they get a simple estimate right, and why do they keep calling for more money? The red flags are stacking up. I could go on and on about how I think the diagnosis, process, and warranty are not fair in this case, but what is the point? Just get away from that dealer, they are not helping you they are just calling you on the phone over and over to see what you are worth. The answer apparently is thousands.

If you won't or can't fix the car yourself, hire a local mechanic to fix the car with the used parts you find here. You will have to pay the mechanic and the bill will likely be padded a little because you are bringing your own parts. But as you pointed out, you are already getting hit with excessively high prices. Tell the new shop what you are trying to do. Tell them you need a car that is fixed so you can sell it or trade it in. As cheap as possible without scamming the next owner with a cover up.

Most people own many cars in their lives. Some are good, and often even enjoyable. This one is causing you grief, and has become a liability. I hope things turn out with your next vehicle, but there is no going back on this one IMHO.
 
#16 ·
What @adaycj said. Snag a turbo off of one of the members here for a great price, and have a mechanic or mechanically inclined friends help you do the install. Not sure what the labor will be for our stock turbo but it should literally be plug and play. I don't see how you can't get this done for under $1000


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#17 ·
With as many people on the forums that run the green filter, this is the first I've read about something like this happening with one (unless I missed a thread, haven't been here very long). Is this a genuine concern with the open ended filters?
 
#19 ·
I made a post over last weekend I think. I'd been running a K&N closed end. Mountune 91 tune. Ignition corrections never went below -1 or over +4. I installed a Cobb intake last Friday night and put the included Cobb (Green) open end filter in. I only ran it for about 50 miles because my ignition corrections went down to near -2 and above +4. As soon as I put the K&N back in everything was back to normal and I haven't even seen -1 again since.
 
#18 ·
sounds like a pretty bogus excuse from them....
 
#21 ·
Thank you guys for your help. I really do appreciate it. I'll be heading home today and will be trying to get to the dealership tomorrow and have a word with them. If things don't work out I'll hit one of you up for the turbo. My only worry is that they quoted me on a ton of different parts that need to be replaced, not just the turbo. So I'm not sure what all I need.
 
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#26 ·
I had the cold start misfire CEL pop on. Took it to a dealership. They told me that it was due to my Green filter, even though it had come on with the stock filter too. They tried to hit me with a $100 fee to reset the CEL, because they said the filter caused it. And it my motor had popped, they wouldn't have covered it. Ended up not having to pay, but will never go back to that dealership.

Sent from a new potato
 
#25 ·
The VegasST club has offered to help. I offered up my garage to help him replace the turbo if needed if he helps out. I have arthritis in my hands from wrenching my whole life so if he can help along with the others, then we can get him up back on the road on a weekend.

I dont think taking it to a different dealer will work, the one he took it to, where i got my ST isnt the best. the one all the way down south wouldve probably taken care of it. but its past that, and there will be tool marks on every nut and bolt that a tech would be able to see. plus he will have to pay for them to put it back together. I suggested to him to pick up one of the turbos offered up here and some new gaskets and have us put it on. I told him id do it for a couple hundred if he helps out so he can get it up and running again for 400$ or so..
 
#30 ·
This community is amazing. I had the dealership put the ST back together and I'm going to take it home tomorrow and get with the local guys to see about getting a new turbo in it. Again, thank you to everyone who has given me advice as I really do appreciate it.
 
#32 ·
FWIW at the dealer I am at. Honestly, we don't care a whole lot about mods. As on long as it's not in the way or an inconvenience to the repair.

At the end of the day, I don't get paid to not work. So if I can get you under warranty we will. Sometimes it's a bit hard, but we do what we can. Tunes are the biggest problem because alot of the diagnositcal equipment runs off checking so many parameters and when that's all skewed it's just impossible.

Point of my story is, find another dealer. They can't "flag" your vehicle per se. They won't go through the paperwork, it's a *****. Just get your car and go somewhere else. Don't have them do any work on it.
 
#33 · (Edited)
UPDATE:

Alright. Finally made it back into town last night. Went into the Ford dealership today to pick up the ST and to see what was up with it. Had one of the service managers explain the write up to me and she was super helpful. Apparently, according to the tech (who she said was one of their best) that worked on the car, there is an aftermarket blow off valve installed on my ST. They are saying that the tube going from the air filter to the turbo was installed incorrectly which allowed it to suck up dirt and debris which is the cause of this entire issue. It was not my Green Filter. So this ST that I bought on Oct 3rd of last year was sold to me with an aftermarket blow off valve. There was no notification of this mod in any of the paperwork I signed or received from the dealership I bought it from. The ST is still with Ford right now because it is not safe to drive and I am not risking more damage to anything else. Thankfully they said that the engine is fine.

Wife and I went home to go find the paperwork from when we bought the ST from the other dealership because it had the warranty sticker with it still. I was afraid that when I bought the ST that all I was getting was a 1 year/12k mile or whatever warranty from them. Thankfully I was wrong. It is a 2 year/100k mile warranty. Phew. So we gathered the paperwork and made our way to the dealership I bought it from originally. The first person they had me talk to was a finance manager. No idea why. But whatever. I explained everything to him. The aftermarket blow off valve, the warranty that was sold to me with the car, the lack of notification of said aftermarket part, etc. He seemed to understand my problem thankfully. I showed him the warranty sticker and it says that they will cover 100% of parts and 100% of labor cost for 2 years/100k miles. This including (in writing) the engine, turbos, and anything relating to said systems. He said he doesn't see why I wouldn't be covered since this is what was sold to me when I bought the car. So he takes us over to the service dept. so I can talk to one of the guys there.

So I go through and re-explain everything to this guy. He looks up my VIN and sees that the vehicle was sold as a Certified Pre-Owned vehicle so all the warranties and everything should carry over. This is where the issue starts. According to him and the warranty sticker, the warranty I have through them with the car ONLY covers work if the factory warranty with the vehicle is expired. Meaning that anything they submit to the 3rd party company they use for their warranty work will be denied if the vehicle in question is still under factory warranty. Which mine is. I only have 24k on the odo and the 3 year powertrain warranty expires April 9th of 2017. He said that if they submit a repair request with my vehicle and the miles it currently has on it that it will be denied. He also said that if any aftermarket parts are mentioned in the repair request that it will get instantly denied. Yet they sold this vehicle to me WITH the aftermarket part on it WITHOUT telling me or notifying me in any way shape or form. Basically my ST has to sit in my garage until the 9th of April of next year before they can submit a repair request under the warranty. I asked to speak to a higher up (not to sound like that guy but... I needed to) and they took me back to the first guy I talked to from finance. He wasn't any help of course. Unfortunately, the Service Manager is on vacation and won't be back until Saturday of this week. I will be out of town until next week. My car can only sit at Ford for 7 days. Thankfully my factory warranty covers towing so I am probably going to have it towed to my house and just let it sit there while I figure this out. It is NOT safe to drive.

Ford will not warranty my car because there is an aftermarket part installed which I did not do. This car was sold to me with this aftermarket piece installed and no mention of it was ever made to me during the process of my purchase. Now, according to the Ford techs, this part was installed incorrectly by whoever did it and it has caused $3500 worth of damage to my vehicle. Which is also under warranty through the dealership I bought it from. But they won't warranty it because it is still under factory warranty. Ford won't warranty it because of a part I did not install.

And here I am. Typing away trying to explain everything. My father, thankfully, sent me a copy of a Nevada DMV complaint form that I will be filling out. I won't submit it however. Yet. I will need to talk to this dealership again and tell them that they need to figure this out and get my car fixed on their dime or I will look for other ways to remedy this issue.

ETA: Another worry I have is that I don't know if I can reasonably prove to them that I did not install this part. They can't prove I did or didn't either. So we're kind of at a stand still there. However, my wife and I vlog so we will be going through the videos to see if we can find anything useful. I have had a couple people ask me if my blow off valve was aftermarket because it was so loud. I just told them that that was how it was sold to me. So up until about 3 weeks ago, I was under the impression that the blow off valve I have on my car was stock and assumed they all sounded like that... :sad:
 
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#36 ·
This is what I'm thinking. What kind of lawyer would be able to help me for this...?
 
#40 ·
Yeah it's a terrible situation. But it doesn't seem to be an ordinary thing.
 
#48 ·
Quick update: I took my ST to another dealership that was recommended to me by a few others here. I drove the car for about 25 mins from my place to the dealership and there were no issues with it at all. It drove fine and started up fine. Unfortunately they weren't able to replicate the issue because there was no CEL when I brought it in. They shot all the wires and they checked good according to the service advisor. He said they even drove about 50mi and didn't see anything wrong. He said that if it has the issue again then they want it brought in. Preferably still running with the CEL on. I am going to go pick it up here soon and I plan on driving it around the area a little bit and turning it off and back on because that is when the problem presents itself. It really seems to me that this is an electrical issue of some sort because it will either run perfectly fine or randomly have this issue pop up. It is odd though because when the issue pops up the first time there is no CEL. It displays the "service engine now" warning and the yellow/orange 'I' in the middle of the cluster stays illuminated, but no CEL. It is usually when I turn the car off and then back on that the CEL illuminates.

I am at a complete loss here and have no idea what to do.
 
#50 ·
Wait lol.. I thought the issue was seals in the turbo? now its a intermittent issue? electrical? they are saying..
 
#51 ·
I just saw this thread but reading the original, he said the dealer told him the seals were bad. OP was there any indication the turbo seals were bad? Sounds to me like the dealer was full of **** and there is a minor issue and they were trying to get a bunch of money.
 
#55 ·
I may be late but filtering does not effect the seals. That dealership is a joke. And there is what is called a matrix that makes the labor go up the more you spend and it also makes parts sometimes triple what list price is. The dealership is literally a joke. If politicians wanted to do more to fix our country they would also include allowing the manufacturers to run their dealers instead of them being franchises like tesla. An audi 2.0 motor at my dealer is $10,000 if bought through the service department. But if you buy it directly through the parts department is $4995.
 
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