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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So today I finally installed my FRPP snorkel because I wanted to see if it actually reduces intake temps and provides a ram air effect. Well to my amazement it is definitely a must have mod in my opinion! My ambient temps actually showed lower than what is displayed on the dash & radio by 1-2 degrees and my intake temps stayed within 3 degrees of ambient which NEVER happens. I really wish I could accurately measure charge air temps but oh well until a Ford fix comes out for the 15'+ models I'm stuck with guesstimating.

Now the next step, which is going to be heartbreaking since I really really LOVE the sound of my open end filter & RS air box, I'm going to try to pressurize the system better and keep out the hot air while idling which is the weak link with my current setup. So I will be putting the stock top back on and either throw in the K&N filter that came with my FRPP CAI kit or plug the end with the cap I purchased and compare idle temps and manifold psi to see if it made a difference. I'll also wrap the intake tubes going from the crossmember to the airbox with heat reflective tape and will be doing the same to my RS turbo-up intake tubes when I eventually get to that installation project along with frpp tune and colder plugs.

temp displayed on dash & radio was steady 72 today, this has always been the same as ambient on my Torquepro app.. here are the temps from Torque and virtualdyno after the snorkel install. Idle intake went up to 79 when i stopped to fiddle with the app for a couple minutes.
 

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Ambient temperature is measured by a sensor in the passenger side mirror, installing a snorkel should have no affect on it. Did you mean intake temperature?

Edit: Nevermind, it made sense when you edited your post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Ambient temperature is measured by a sensor in the passenger side mirror, installing a snorkel should have no affect on it. Did you mean intake temperature?

Edit: Nevermind, it made sense when you edited your post.

No it was ambient but the intake temps also went down from the normal 10+ difference when warmed up. Is there a different sensor for the temp displayed on the dash & radio vs. The temp shown on the ambient PID? The radio, dash & ambient pid monitor on the app are always the same temp but after i installed the snorkel the ambient pid temp disply on both apps was lower than the dash & radio temp displayed reading by 1-2 degrees.
this is from earlier this morning before the snorkel install, you can see a 10-15°F diff between ambient and intake while moving.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
I guess I should have listed what PID sensors the abbreviated gauge titles are measuring in my Torque Pro app, the reason for two charge air temp PID's (CAC) is because two different PID equations were being used by people for the same sensor, i dont know which one is more accurate (especially with the 2015+ model year high reading error) but I believe Stratified listed the "signed" equation (CAC2) as the better choice. For those wondering, I didnt abbreviate the charge air temps in the gauge title as CAT because I didnt want them to be confused with Catalyst temps. That HP/TQ run was done right after i installed the snorkel and took it out for a test drive. I went wot in 3rd gear at ~4k rpm and it felt like a rocket, then heat soak set in...an FMIC is the next investment!

Air temp = ambient air temperature
Intake - Intake Air Temperature
CAC = charge air cooler (temperature) ((((256*A)+B)*.011404134)+9.26087)*1.8+32
CAC2 = charge air cooler (temperature) ((((signed(A)*256)+B)/64)*1.8)+32
CatB1S1 - Catalyst Temperature Bank 1, Sensor 1
 

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I have been thinking about putting a snorkel on mine but don’t really want to have to remove the front bumper for install. How hard is it to removes the front bumper?
 

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I have been thinking about putting a snorkel on mine but don’t really want to have to remove the front bumper for install. How hard is it to removes the front bumper?
It isn't hard at all honestly. The first time just be careful and take care to remember where you're removing bolts from. Takes like an hour the first time maybe if you're cautious...now I could do it in like 20 minutes.

Removing bolts under both wheel wells, removing the headlights and then bolts underneath the headlights, then that's basically it. Remove it and unhook connectors as you go. Then don't sit the painted surface on the ground of course lol.
 

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Check the link below. 2015+ shouldn't need to remove the grill to install the "Big Mouth". I have a 2017 it works. Just take your time removing the grill.

forum/focus-st-guides/129281-how-install-snorkel-15-focus-st-without-removing-bumper.html#/topics/129281
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I just popped up the plastic radiator shroud cover and shoved it down through the top, i just folded up the rubber air guide for now, kinda sloppy but will eventually cut a hole for the snorkel to slide through when i pull the bumper for a FMIC install. For now, no grill or bumper removal needed. I just read that you can actually pull the drivers side headlight and pull out that rubber air guide shroud through the opening so i may take a look at that tomorrow. My install is kinda sloppy and i dont want to deform that rubber air shroud thats currently folded up & wedged under/behind the snorkel. plus there is now a big opening straight up to the engine bay for bugs & water etc to get in along with the nice fresh air... I think thats why my ambient temp is now showing 1- 3 degrees lower on the PID app monitor than the dash & radio display.

you can just youtube focus st snorkel install for various methods.The bumper looks like it would take 30-45 mins if everything went as planned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ambient was definitely staying 2-4°F under the dash & radio temp display which was 64° F today. I did notice my intake temps while idleing in line 15min behind a SUV at a drive thru food place shot up to 120 and charge was showing 108. Also did a quick virtual dyno run on the mobile app, still cant get it to start logging at 2k
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well today I swapped out the RS airbox lid for the closed stock box lid and I put the rubber "cap" on the open end filter to seal the deal. Intake temps stayed the same when moving as with the previous setup but I was able to get some lower temps while idling, the manifold psi seemed to be the same. What was missing was the woooshh that i have come to love so I dont think the little gain in better idling temps is worth losing the awesome sound of the intake from the open end of the filter & the RS lid. Any thoughts on this? If you look at the Mountune UK parts you will find a open end box (quad) and a super sealed box being offered (different car but same application) so at the end of the day i'm sure testing has been done on both and really no disadvantage to either way???

X4 Quad airbox:

https://www.mountunestore.com/products/focus-c307rs-x4-quad-entry-induction-kit

Mountune low loss Airbox lid

https://issuu.com/mountune/docs

catalog:

https://issuu.com/mountune/docs
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
From today w stock lid and filter end capped: dash/radio temp dislay was steady 66, ambient showed 63
 

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I was part of the "I'm not paying over $100 for a plastic piece that doesn't do anything" camp. In fact, just last week I posted that. But last night I decided to put my lid back on. I had taken it off when I bought the car almost immediately for turbo noises. I got an accessport recently and had been monitoring intake and charge temps. Through various pulls intake temps would be shortly behind the high charge temps. On a 90F ambient sunny day, I did a pull into 4th and reached a charge temp of 180F and intake temp of 133F and it took forever for the intake temp to come back down. This morning I was monitoring the temps and noticed my intake temps were now no more than 10F above ambient. I did a short pull in 3rd and hit 120F charge temp and intake temp hardly moved at all from 80F at 72F ambient. I can't say that the lid had any effect on charge temp because conditions weren't comparable, but no matter what the conditions were with the lid off, the short pull I did this morning would have yielded an intake temp of at least 90F+, or at least some rise in temp. It's possible the snorkel won't make a difference still. The factory ram air pipes may be sufficient enough that a snorkel won't have a benefit; and with the lid off, the cold air brought in by the ram air will still blow over the filter as it normally would.

While my experimental data and method is lacking, thermodynamic laws still apply. Turbo outlet temp=intake temp+heat generation, outlet is still a function of intake temp. However, it may be possible that heat gen function is exponential and reaches a steady state value. For example, if the turbo outlet is 350F and can't increase because it can't spin any faster and reached it's peak efficiency, then the intake temp won't mean too much because turbo out temp will get to 350F regardless. BUT, if it is a linear relationship then as intake temp drops, so will turbo out and no matter what intercooler you have, that's favorable
 

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This is like comparing gains from one muffler to another, I get it but aren't we just circle jerking at this point? It's a mod that has marginal effect on performance, you're better off going on a diet and lowering that seat weight if you want to extract all the power. #weightreductionisbetterforyourhealthaswell
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I was part of the "I'm not paying over $100 for a plastic piece that doesn't do anything" camp. In fact, just last week I posted that. But last night I decided to put my lid back on. I had taken it off when I bought the car almost immediately for turbo noises. I got an accessport recently and had been monitoring intake and charge temps. Through various pulls intake temps would be shortly behind the high charge temps. On a 90F ambient sunny day, I did a pull into 4th and reached a charge temp of 180F and intake temp of 133F and it took forever for the intake temp to come back down. This morning I was monitoring the temps and noticed my intake temps were now no more than 10F above ambient. I did a short pull in 3rd and hit 120F charge temp and intake temp hardly moved at all from 80F at 72F ambient. I can't say that the lid had any effect on charge temp because conditions weren't comparable, but no matter what the conditions were with the lid off, the short pull I did this morning would have yielded an intake temp of at least 90F+, or at least some rise in temp. It's possible the snorkel won't make a difference still. The factory ram air pipes may be sufficient enough that a snorkel won't have a benefit; and with the lid off, the cold air brought in by the ram air will still blow over the filter as it normally would.

While my experimental data and method is lacking, thermodynamic laws still apply. Turbo outlet temp=intake temp+heat generation, outlet is still a function of intake temp. However, it may be possible that heat gen function is exponential and reaches a steady state value. For example, if the turbo outlet is 350F and can't increase because it can't spin any faster and reached it's peak efficiency, then the intake temp won't mean too much because turbo out temp will get to 350F regardless. BUT, if it is a linear relationship then as intake temp drops, so will turbo out and no matter what intercooler you have, that's favorable
The problem is not so much when moving but when you have to stop, the radiant heat at idle that makes its way over to the airbox is freakn ridiculous and takes a while to dissipate after getting going again. Without the snorkel you're stuck trying to gather air from behind the shroud , headlight, and whatever made it around the shutters if you have them. The snorkel is direct access to outside ambient temps and at speed it's rammed in there just like she likes it! :big smile:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
This is like comparing gains from one muffler to another, I get it but aren't we just circle jerking at this point? It's a mod that has marginal effect on performance, you're better off going on a diet and lowering that seat weight if you want to extract all the power. #weightreductionisbetterforyourhealthaswell
But donuts are so tasty!

 
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This is like comparing gains from one muffler to another, I get it but aren't we just circle jerking at this point? It's a mod that has marginal effect on performance, you're better off going on a diet and lowering that seat weight if you want to extract all the power. #weightreductionisbetterforyourhealthaswell
Awww.. horsecrap! No way I’m giving up my Swiss Cake Rolls! #fatasSTdriver
 

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This is like comparing gains from one muffler to another, I get it but aren't we just circle jerking at this point? It's a mod that has marginal effect on performance, you're better off going on a diet and lowering that seat weight if you want to extract all the power. #weightreductionisbetterforyourhealthaswell
It's not about the performance difference, it's the engine safety. You're absolutely right in that you're not going to feel the difference (while I did feel like the car wasn't as fast on really hot days, but that may have been a placebo effect as well), but a 120F+ IAT in a 4th gear pull on a 85F ambient day is a big deal, it could be the difference between knock and nothing at all real easily. While the effects aren't nearly as drastic as an upgraded fmic, for those that don't have one or have no interest in one, simply leaving the lid on is far safer for the car. It's the same thing as getting an intercooler on a stock tune, you get piece of mind that you won't knock and your performance will be consistent
 

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Cooler air isn't "safer" but it's more efficient in producing power, computer will always adjust for knock no matter what temps you are running. So saying having cooler air is safer isn't correct, safety will always be in the tune of the vehicle and what parameters it's set to adjust for. Hell you could run no fmic and your car won't be any less safer, just suck a producing any power efficiently with the turbo. We can extrapolate to the point where yes a 250 degree charge temp consistently will cause some kind of damage, but in real world the car won't see that and anything it does see it will account for safely ie. pull timing for days. It's still a debate on marginal gains or a few degrees difference in intake temps and pressure, where I still say stop circle jerking and eat a few less twinkies for max power!

Edit: fmic is a good idea for making power, but if it wasn't safe the Ford engineers wouldn't have passed the spec. #dollarforpowercompromise
 

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Cooler air isn't "safer" but it's more efficient in producing power, computer will always adjust for knock no matter what temps you are running. So saying having cooler air is safer isn't correct, safety will always be in the tune of the vehicle and what parameters it's set to adjust for. Hell you could run no fmic and your car won't be any less safer, just suck a producing any power efficiently with the turbo. We can extrapolate to the point where yes a 250 degree charge temp consistently will cause some kind of damage, but in real world the car won't see that and anything it does see it will account for safely ie. pull timing for days. It's still a debate on marginal gains or a few degrees difference in intake temps and pressure, where I still say stop circle jerking and eat a few less twinkies for max power!

Edit: fmic is a good idea for making power, but if it wasn't safe the Ford engineers wouldn't have passed the spec. #dollarforpowercompromise
This cannot be true. The ECU won't pull timing until it senses knock. If it's pulling timing, it's knocking, and the car's longevity is being affected. Cool temps prevents timing from being pulled because there is no knock being detected. This is obviously "safer" for the car.

High cylinder temps cause knock, high charge air temps contribute to high cylinder temps...

Am i confused?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
It's not about the performance difference, it's the engine safety. You're absolutely right in that you're not going to feel the difference (while I did feel like the car wasn't as fast on really hot days, but that may have been a placebo effect as well), but a 120F+ IAT in a 4th gear pull on a 85F ambient day is a big deal, it could be the difference between knock and nothing at all real easily. While the effects aren't nearly as drastic as an upgraded fmic, for those that don't have one or have no interest in one, simply leaving the lid on is far safer for the car. It's the same thing as getting an intercooler on a stock tune, you get piece of mind that you won't knock and your performance will be consistent
Ive seen uncorrected charge temps of up to 165F (15'+ have faulty reading of ~ +20F) and IAT's up to 129F....I've measured underhood temps of up to 180F around the intake tubes, airbox, engine cover, etc. with the infrared thermometer gun.

BTW, did someone say CAKE!!!!!!! #EATMORECAKE

 
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