Lets have a conversation on these tables based on the previous logs in the thread...
@Bugasu@Stratified @Gh0st @willfromfreeport

HP Side

This FRP table has been modified but I still see a dip between 3500 and 4500 like the system is trying to correct itself from ramping up HPFP FRP so fast.

LP Side

Provided a slight voltage bump to help the LPFP LRP keep us with the increased demand.

 

your fuel pressure is fine, for what reason do you feel you need to mess with it? Same with your fuel trims. They'll never be perfect. Shouldn't have to touch anything VE until you start playing with turbo. Your timing looks good. I can't get anywhere near that on the piss gas we have here.

 

Because of this

 

Because of this
View attachment 112946

Sorry, I apparently glanced over E30 and only looked at the 93 octane stuff. You could try upping the LPFP voltage and desired LPFP pressure, but that is a rough point in terms of fueling with higher load and fuel consumption which is why I turned my aux fuel back on with 93 octane.

 

I wonder if anyone has worked around this short of aux fuel. @Bugasu@Stratified

 

No secrets here. The HPFP is mechanically limited. Even with Aux Fuel, I really want to get a 4-lobe cam in there similar to the Mustang just to help it out still.
The LPFP can flow a lot more fuel than the HPFP ever will.

You can play with LPFP settings, and then the voltage to the pump so it can keep up with demanded LPFP, but you aren't going to magically make the HPFP flow much more. The HPFP pump is basically a displacement design, so the only way to get it to flow more is to pump it faster.

That said, some fuel rail drop is expected on an E-blend with the stock pump. Try to keep it as level as you can, but you'll probably see a slight dip somewhere down low. The only way to get rid of it would be:
A) Add additional fuel (which you have to do outside the HPFP)
B) Reduce fuel requirements

 

The FRP dip occurs when the boost increases to 20+ psi and the load increases to 2.x+. Need to increase fuel lbs min in the 3500ish to 4500ish rpm band.

 

yeah, what he said

 

11.47 AFR up top above 6.4k RPM (E30)
Some negative timing in cylinder 4
1st log has wheelspin
Temperature was 50-55ish this morning
FRP dip from 2100 psi FRP to psi 1250 FRP@ 3.3k RPM (20.8 lbs/min af) to 4.4k RPM (24.65 lbs/min af) when boost is above 22.x psi and STFT above 5% correction
About 22 degrees timing total.

:question:
V202 Map 5 E30 Logs Here

My Fuel Maps are as follows:

 

Call me crazy, but try reducing boost in that trouble area to maybe 20psi and see if it helps. You can maybe offset the boost reduction with more timing. Like Bugasu said there isn't much you can do for the HPFP.

You can see here in my log I'm still fine tuning the boost to not only not overboost, but also take it easy on my fuel pump, but I am also using an aux kit which helps tremendously. Prior to enabling the kit on the 93 I was having big dips in HPFP.

http://datazap.me/u/gh0st/log-1444429974?log=0&data=4-6-7&zoom=31-116

 

So on th ethanol tune I'm hitting 2.4+ load actual. The biggest dip corresponds with about 2.36+ load actual. Maybe if I limit load actual in that rpm band it will prevent the massive drop and sort of minimize the drop. Worth a try. Any thoughts @Gh0st @willfromfreeport

 

yes

 

So fwiw the fuel pressure drop hits 1000 psi at 2.41 to 2.43 load actual. If I limit load actual to 2.36 I believe fuel pressure will not dip below 1200 psi.

The question I have for @Stratified is what is the lowest frp that can be sustained between 3500 and 4500 rpm with the stock turbo (27 lbs/min) before it becomes an issue with the injectors?

With that said I should be monitoring how long the injectors are open vs time available at specific rpms to see how close 1000 psi (or 2.41 to 2.43 load) put me to that limit.

For now I've set load limit at 2.36.

 

I've been through at least two more iterations of the file. Although there is a correlation between FRP and load even with load limited to 2.36 you still see a FPR dip. The difference is load is stabilized at 2.35X for a moment at the expense of power and the FRP dip doesnt last as long.

I turned back the boost and timing. Then I started creeping the boost forward to 22.5 target range with my baro at 14.5.

Next I continued to tweak the timing tables for E30 and the WGDC for 2nd gear. In 2nd I'm only seeing 18.x psi of boost. It's great the car pulls and the traction is optimized. WGDC has settled at about .72 for 2nd.

I'm not sold on utilizing load limit of 2.36 and may increase that to 2.40 to 2.45 (the highest I've seen prior to the 2.36 limit is 2.43 on my E30 mix). The reason is when logging 2nd gear pulls or pulls with 1/4 tank of fuel you see FRP drop to the 900s regardless of load. There is no point in limiting load if it's not direcly impacting AFRs or unless someone can further educate me on other impacts/dangers of load limits.

I havent messed with the AFR yet its still set to the recommended E30 range. I plan on moving to that next.

This morning I didn't see any negative corrections and this included a 5th gear pull vs a VR4 that had a jump. At first he pulled into my rearview doing the tailgate thing. From there I moved over and knew he wanted to go when through my side mirror I saw the old thing cough a small plume from its exhaust that knocked out some of the built up carbon. It also sounded like the fart can came alive as it was louder than anything around to include my car stereo. He was coming fast but our turbo spools so quickly paired with the e30 tune burried the VR4 to the point of embarrassment. We enjoyed another 20 miles of commute but he had enough with the first go.

Still no negative corrections to this point it's exceptionally clean. This afternoon I hit a strip I like to run when coming back from lunch. It's usually good for 2 third gear pulls. The first pull I saw negative corrections across cylinder 2 throughout the RPM band to -1.5 degrees where I backed off. I followed this by another 3rd gear pull where everything with the timing was clean normal positive values. I have both logged and will take a look at them tonight.

Plan on pulling all the plugs and checking gap for .026. I wonder if it's the spark pack for the cylinder or even an injector but so many folks have issues with #2.

 

Was seeing 21.6 (occasionally) 22.2 (regularly) psi of boost. Gave a target increase of .5 so hopefully I will see 22.1 to 22.7 psi.

Pulled slight timing across the RPM band between .25 and .5 degrees.

Increased the load limit to 2.45.

Need some love (help) on the following

The Fuel Scalar Stoich Setpoint is currently 12.7 in ATR. I utilize E85 branded fuel that I suspect may be Category 2 based on the time of year which would have a minimum ethanol content of 74%. However if it's the normal E85 Cat 1 then the minimum ethanol content is 79%. The 93 I use has a max ethanol content of 10%. I use a target of E35 which would be 12.67. This setting effects STFT and LTFT according to the cobb tuning tips in the documentation. I have positive values of 5 to 7 points in all my logs. I do not have an ethanol analyzer but its easy enough to change my 'mix' ratio based on feedback. What else does this setting effect? I lowered this to 12.5 to see if it provides more fuel. I'd rather have fuel pulled vs added although it's the same in the end, provided this setting doesn't effect anything else.

The desired AFR power demand shows 11.61 on the AP3 based on the desired fuel target power demand table in ATR for the slot that tapers to 11.674 for E30. Some others users with E30 tunes seem to set it up richer as I've seen 11.1 to 11.5 in other forum threads. I've also heard some MFG OTS E30 tune run leaner at 11.9.

The actual AFR closed loop shows 12.05 on the AP3. Assuming this is based off table closed loop fueling base in ATR from the Cobb V312 93 octane I started with as I have both E30 and 93 tunes on the same file.

Another potential issue from having E30 and 93 on the same file is the desired fuel target (scavenging) which I have set to 14.7 for all maps including e30.

 

replied to your email

 

Thanks,

Will summarize changes here later today based on the email(s) provided your okay with it...

 

Sorry I've been quiet. Very busy with personal and work life. I have someone's PM I still haven't replied to and I feel bad about it.

 

Went back to Cobb HPFP settings.
Adjusted AFR to call for leaner settings in the FPR dip range of 11.8 before tapering to 11.6 at 6k rpm.
Adjusted EOI 150 to lower recommended value.
Adjusted FIMP up to higher recommended value.
Increased fuel in Cylinder 2 and 4 from 1.00 multiplier to 1.015 but after reviewing these logs bumped it to 1.05 for 3.5k+ rpm

Cylinder 2 and 4 not building timing consistently at 4k to 6k rpm.
Leans out at 4k AFR 12.2-12.3 vs 11.8 requested
HPFR drops to the 600-800 range
Boost peaks at 22.5-22.7 psi (was higher when cold 23.2)
Load 2.37 to 2.43 max (was higher when cold 2.48)
Car weight 2 passengers 3528 lbs

3 logs in the drop down menu.
Car Warmed Up Here

2 logs in the drop down menu.
Car Cold Here

@Silver_Shooter @Gh0st @willfromfreeport

8 gal 93/10 + 4 gal e85(79) is e33 (my current ethanol fill that I'm tuning toward)
8 gal 93/10 + 4 gal e85(74) is e31.34 (in order to be able to support this in winter)
8 gal 93/10 + 4 gal e85(70) is e30 (or this)

 

I feel like I am chasing this the wrong way.

To combat FRP drops I ran a leaner mix which causes timing to be pulled. I've pulled alot of timing and continue to see minor corrections. Maybe I'm unrealistic but I'm looking for a super clean tune. It would probably help if I got a set of ethanol testers to use 1x per quarter to check the e content.

Will readjust to the richer mix at 11.6 (requiring more fuel although I may settle at 11.76), re-add the timing slowly, then be back to the original FRP issue.

For FRP I will try to ramp the FRP earlier (from the Cobb v312 settings) in anticipation of the FRP actual dip and tweak the EOI 150 (down slightly) and FIMP (up slightly)to extend the fuel injection window to overcome any pressure issues. The tale tell sign will be the AFR requested vs the actual AFR. The two issues I'll be looking at is how long the FRP dip/AFR raise occurs vs how big the FRP dip/AFR raise numbers.

Maybe I should just buy a Stratified OTS+ E85 tune :furious:

 

I feel like I am chasing this the wrong way. To combat FRP drops I ran a leaner mix which causes timing to be pulled. Will readjust to the richer mix at 11.6, re-add the timing slowly, then be back to the original FRP issue. For FRP I will try to ramp the FRP earlier (from the Cobb v312 settings) in anticipation of the FRP actual dip and tweak the EOI 150 (down slightly) and FIMP (up slightly)to extend the fuel injection window to overcome any pressure issues. The tale tell sign will be the AFR requested vs the actual AFR. The two issues I'll be looking at is how long the FRP dip/AFR raise occurs vs how big the FRP dip/AFR raise numbers. Maybe I should just buy a Stratified OTS+ E85 tune :furious:

I have been following this thread closely and look forward to your "remedy". Will limiting load for that specific rpm range do anything for that? I'm a rookie so I could be making zero sense lol

 

Update on the FRP:

I've been working with the tune to level out the FRP and AFR. I have been able to stablize it a bit by ramping up the FRP early at 2.5k rpm to 1800-2000 PSI and allowing it to maintain that pressure without requesting 2200 which resulted in FRP spikes after it caught up to 2200 and actually exceeded that at 2400. At 6k I targeted 2100 to further help eliminate the over compensation in FRP which contributed to the richer 11.47 AFRs.

Since the car is fueled with an injection window and not solely FRP this has helped with the Cobb default EOI and FIMP.

As FRP ramped it overshot the AFR 11.61 requested hitting 11.47. I changed the AFR requested to 11.78 to keep the AFR in the 11.7 to 11.6 range more consistently.

Timing has been adjusted for load and AFR. The tune is exceptionally clean as nearly all negative corrections have been eliminated. Still need to tweak the timing vs load just a touch at certain RPMs. Now that the FRP drop has been mitigated and timing has been cleaned up I am pushing the tune forward for more power. Boost is stabilized at 22.4 to 22.5 and doesnt overshoot often. 2nd gear is sitting on WGDC BBG limitation of 70% which helps control wheelspin imensely.

Feeling like I'm really close to having a good E30 base file. However, it will be January before I can start tweaking to compare the benefit of slightly increased boost and timing across the RPM band for load variables. Also planning on testing the Cobb valve timing adjustments vs the stock valve timing and it's impacts on the tune.