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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay guys

I wanted to post today exactly what my driving style is. I dont see anything wrong with it, but the ST is my first manual car and I wanted to share how I drive with you all so that if I am doing something HORRIBLY WRONG. One of you can correct me before it's too late!

I will be doing this in list format to keep things neat and tidy and not have a giant run-on paragraph. SO! Here we go.

STARTS
-clutch in-into first-rev to 2k rpm and release clutch until bite point, as rpm drops, give more gas and release (slight pause at bite point, when the car "bites" it needs a sec, I have to feel the car hook up then I give it more gas before I can release the clutch all the way, so its like VRRRRRrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRR......hard to say it in text.....)

UPSHIFTING

-clutch in-shift into next gear-roll off the clutch quickly (I do not move the shift lever at all until the clutch is all the way depressed, and I dont release the clutch at all until it is all the way in gear, this tends to make shifting feel smoother)

DOWNSHIFTING

Okay...heres the one I am really concearned about, but it feels...okay...

So, there are 2 different ways I downshift depending on 2 different conditions. One is coming to a stop and letting the rpms drop first, the second is rev matching if I am at a higher rpm.

If I am coming to a stop or letting rpms drop first: -clutch in-downshift to next gear lower-roll off the clutch quickly and the car's revs pop up on their own a little bit for the new gear-

If I am downshifting WITHOUT letting the rpms drop: -clutch in-downshift to next gear lower-blip the throttle-roll off the clutch-

STOPPING

If I am going to a stop from a high speed: I will downshift using whichever of the above downshifting methods is most appropriate for the situation, I downshift 5th,4th,3rd, then at about 15mph I put the clutch in and take her out of gear and release the clutch, coming to a stop in neutral, if its a stop sign I will leave the clutch in and pop it into first so I am ready to go right away, and start as I stated above.

If I am stopping gradually from, say 5th gear, I will leave the car in gear until rpms drop to 1k rpm, push in the clutch, pop it into neutral, release clutch, and brake to a stop. If it is a stop sign, I will push in the clutch again right before I stop and pop it into 1st so I am ready to start again.

REVERSING

Driveway reversing: My driveway is on a slope, so I just put the clutch in, pop into reverse and leave the clutch in as I roll out the driveway.

Reverse parking: if I am reversing into a space or out of a space in a lot I will push the clutch in, pop into reverse, then give it a little gas and only release the clutch enough to slowly move the car out of the space, then put the clutch back in, pop into first and set off.



I a AWARE, that posting this is a giant red flag that I am a NOOB to driving a manual. But this is how my "old school" father said he drove his 70 chevelle back in the day. And I learned off of a combination of him and youtube videos.

I just want to know from you all if I am doing something HORRIBLE here that can destroy my clutch or damage my transmission.

Thanks! and Peace out!
 

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Nothing here all that horrible.

Only thing I can comment on is that with normal driving conditions you do not even need to rev the engine to start in 1st, just give it a little throttle as you roll out on the clutch, it will start from 1k in 1st with no issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Nothing here all that horrible.

Only thing I can comment on is that with normal driving conditions you do not even need to rev the engine to start in 1st, just give it a little throttle as you roll out on the clutch, it will start from 1k in 1st with no issue.
Oh I know it will, but I gotta REALLY slowly release the clutch for it to do it, hell, I can get the car to start with NO throttle, the car will rev up automatically thanks to the ECU algorithm that Ford put in these cars. But isnt letting the clutch out that slowly gonna make it wear faster?
 

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Oh I know it will, but I gotta REALLY slowly release the clutch for it to do it, hell, I can get the car to start with NO throttle, the car will rev up automatically thanks to the ECU algorithm that Ford put in these cars. But isnt letting the clutch out that slowly gonna make it wear faster?
No faster than dumping it/riding it at 2k rpm.
 

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Oh I know it will, but I gotta REALLY slowly release the clutch for it to do it, hell, I can get the car to start with NO throttle, the car will rev up automatically thanks to the ECU algorithm that Ford put in these cars. But isnt letting the clutch out that slowly gonna make it wear faster?
you don't even have to let it out that slowly, just give it a little more gas a little faster. I probably start moving with the RPMs around 1200-1400(I say probably because I dont even look at the tach, I just do it by sound and feel). maybe give it a little more revs when starting on a hill (just to make sure I dont stall it) but in this car its more to overcome the car holding the brake for hill assist. its all about knowing where that friction zone starts and ends which will only come with time and practice.


to prolong the life of the clutch, you want to minimize the amount of time you are letting it slip without it being fully engaged. if the car starts shaking, then maybe slow down how fast you are letting off the clutch or just giving it a little more RPM.


as far as causing any damage to the trans, as long as its not grinding and you're not smashing the sh1t out of the syncros, it will be fine, its a tough little car and a clutch is a wear item so sooner or later its going to need replacement
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
No faster than dumping it/riding it at 2k rpm.
so basically, starting, no matter what, is what wears the clutch the most. Just dont take forever doing it because the longer the pedal is in play the more you wear out the clutch, got it.

Like I posted initially, I have been driving the car for about 7 months, but I just wanted to post this encase something that I am doing, and find to be perfectly fine, could actually be a real red flag to someone who has driven stick for years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
you don't even have to let it out that slowly, just give it a little more gas a little faster. I probably start moving with the RPMs around 1200-1400(I say probably because I dont even look at the tach, I just do it by sound and feel). maybe give it a little more revs when starting on a hill (just to make sure I dont stall it) but in this car its more to overcome the car holding the brake for hill assist. its all about knowing where that friction zone starts and ends which will only come with time and practice.


to prolong the life of the clutch, you want to minimize the amount of time you are letting it slip without it being fully engaged. if the car starts shaking, then maybe slow down how fast you are letting off the clutch or just giving it a little more RPM.


as far as causing any damage to the trans, as long as its not grinding and you're not smashing the sh1t out of the syncros, it will be fine, its a tough little car and a clutch is a wear item so sooner or later its going to need replacement
First of all....bro I love your freaking profile pic. And secondly, explain how one would "smash the sh1t out of the syncros"? Like trying to take the car out of gear or put it into gear without using the clutch? I am not an engineer or mechanic so I dont know what I would have to do in order to damage them, thus that is part of the reason why I posted this thread. I want to make sure that everything I am doing is safe for the car.
 

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Syncro care; Let's talk about the extremes in both directions. The worst syncro abuse is slam-shifting and it causes premature wear. The way to nearly zero syncro wear is to double-clutch between shifts, both up and down shifting. This matches the different gear speeds so that the syncros are almost not needed. In fact, before there were synchronized transmissions one had to do this very thing. In my day I drove four cars with non-synchronized first gears which meant that if I wanted to shift into first while I was still rolling I had double-clutch or it would grind. Either that or come to a complete stop.
But I digress. Normal shifting with the clutch all the way in and soft shifting would be considered normal wear, and the tranny should last the life of the car, defective manufacturing notwithstanding. A good article on transmissions; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_transmission#Synchronized_transmission
 

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Also one other tip, mainly if you want to squeeze a bit more out of the gas mileage, but when you are coming to a stop just go ahead an put it in neutral once you start to brake. No need to downshift through every gear.
 

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Also one other tip, mainly if you want to squeeze a bit more out of the gas mileage, but when you are coming to a stop just go ahead an put it in neutral once you start to brake. No need to downshift through every gear.
When coasting with the car in gear, it doesn't use any fuel. Once you shift to neutral the engine will start using gas to keep running. So if you really want to squeeze out gas mileage keep the car in gear while coming to a stop.
 

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When coasting with the car in gear, it doesn't use any fuel. Once you shift to neutral the engine will start using gas to keep running. So if you really want to squeeze out gas mileage keep the car in gear while coming to a stop.
You coast further without engine braking and idle takes very very little fuel.

You use no fuel while engine braking but the distance you can do this is limited.

Potato/Potahto situation as long as you can see things stopping far enough out.
 
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Everything I have ever read about people that "Hyper mile" their cars they ALWAYS put the vehicle in neutral and "coast" to stops. I would think leaving it in gear and having the rpms hang and slowly decline would use more fuel no?

To add another point to this would this not also be easier on the clutch as opposed to engine braking everytime?
 

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No need to rev to 2k when starting. Just let out the clutch as you give it a little throttle simultaneously and you’ll be golden.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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You coast further without engine braking and idle takes very very little fuel.

You use no fuel while engine braking but the distance you can do this is limited.

Potato/Potahto situation as long as you can see things stopping far enough out.
Yeah I guess I was just thinking about times when you are also using the breaks. In that case it makes sense to stay in gear, but if you wanted to coast a mile before your stop sign thats a whole different thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
No need to rev to 2k when starting. Just let out the clutch as you give it a little throttle simultaneously and you’ll be golden.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
yes, but when I do this, sometimes the engine Lugs. Tips to avoid this?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Syncro care; Let's talk about the extremes in both directions. The worst syncro abuse is slam-shifting and it causes premature wear. The way to nearly zero syncro wear is to double-clutch between shifts, both up and down shifting. This matches the different gear speeds so that the syncros are almost not needed. In fact, before there were synchronized transmissions one had to do this very thing. In my day I drove four cars with non-synchronized first gears which meant that if I wanted to shift into first while I was still rolling I had double-clutch or it would grind. Either that or come to a complete stop.
But I digress. Normal shifting with the clutch all the way in and soft shifting would be considered normal wear, and the tranny should last the life of the car, defective manufacturing notwithstanding. A good article on transmissions; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_transmission#Synchronized_transmission
Yes, but double clutching basically cuts the life of a clutch in half because you are using it twice as much, correct? I understand you HAD to do this in old cars, my other car is a 1970 Camaro, but it isnt a manual any longer (long story), but arent modern cars designed to be shifted in one clutch depression (granny shifting)?
 

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I had to wait and go driving before I can answer what RPM From a stop.
(I am a 50 year veteran stick shift driver, and just did not know consciously what RPM I do..)
1,400 RPM is my average.
I actually am just engaging the clutch as the RPM rise to 1,300 RPM, but the actual 'go' RPM is 1,400 in my ST.
On a hill I am doing 1,500 RPM.

The only thing I question is a lot of downshifting.
(Yeah on a curvy fun rural road.. And even there I would rather let the RPM rise and fall than shift a lot)
SO I generally do not downshift unless I an looking to pass. OR show off blasting away on down the freeway to impress.. I go down to 3rd.
Once in awhile coming to a stop the light changes.. but I would never 'anticipate and pre downshift to some ger like 2 or 3.

And I have never ever double clutched except to goof around.
The one thing I can say is downshifting a LOT does wear out the synchros (Lot means thousands of times of times)
without rev matching. Like zooming around on back roads and constantly shifting up to 4 and down to 3. (that 3rd gear syncho is going to wear)
Or the same but 3 to 2. My 2nd and 3rd synchos were worn and replaced in my 99' Contour SVT at 90,000 miles when I got a Quaif due to the diff dying.

This is why I suggest just sticking to the one gear and let the engine rev up and down more.. in the twisties.
 

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yes, but when I do this, sometimes the engine Lugs. Tips to avoid this?
All you need to do is increase your throttle a bit and it will be smooth and won’t lug.

If you go out to an empty lot somewhere and let off your clutch reeeeeeally slowly with no gas it was actually start to roll without ever having to hit the gas. Once you experience that you’ll be able to better judge how quickly to let out the clutch and how much gas you’ll need to take off smoothly/without any lugging.

It’s kind of a roundabout way of explaining it, but for me personally it helped to know how much my car would move solely by the clutch pedal. From there I had a better understanding of the bite point and when and how much throttle to use.


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Everything I have ever read about people that "Hyper mile" their cars they ALWAYS put the vehicle in neutral and "coast" to stops. I would think leaving it in gear and having the rpms hang and slowly decline would use more fuel no?

To add another point to this would this not also be easier on the clutch as opposed to engine braking everytime?
hyper mile guys like, turn their car off and coast in neutral and so all sorts of crazy stuff, it's really LOLS to read about the extent of effort they go to, even push to start

I think I'm going to stop down shifting when not as necessary IE slow deceleration. I only really down shift when coming to a stop to save the brakes.
 

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Yes, but double clutching basically cuts the life of a clutch in half because you are using it twice as much, correct? I understand you HAD to do this in old cars, my other car is a 1970 Camaro, but it isnt a manual any longer (long story), but arent modern cars designed to be shifted in one clutch depression (granny shifting)?

I understand your logic but disagree. From my knowledge anyhow clutch wear is more about how quickly the clutch goes from out to in. If the movement is quick enough some might say no wear occurs at all. A good driver usually shifts through gears pretty quick while remaining smooth. Less experienced drivers suck at smooth shifting therefore they rely on slow clutch release to create a smooth ride.

Normally when I use double clutch it is down shifting from highway speed (to save on brakes), if the whole operation takes more than a few milliseconds or cannot be done smoothly for any reason it is not worthwhile, this means the clutch action is usually very fast, meaning no extra wear in my opinion anyways.
 
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