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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello All,

I've read a bit about this and it seems other cars may have a similar issue, but I can't tell if what's been happening is the same as what I've been reading.

Only happens on a 100% cold start. I start the car and it idles for a few seconds. I then notice what feel like misfires that happen in random succession. When each event occurs I can feel the car shake a bit, hear it in the exhaust, and see the engine jolt a bit while the hood is up. Additionally, I'm getting little puffs of air escaping from the exhaust with each occurrence. I haven't noticed this until recently and it's freaking me out a bit. Once the car is warm I'm not seeing the issue.

So far I have taken the normal steps in trying to locate an issue. There are no codes, no CEL, and no other odd behaviors. I've ran the gas tank dry and filled up with fresh 91 octane. I've also re-gaped spark plugs (0.028) and re-torqued to 10 lb/ft. I've tried both with my tune installed and without - no difference. My air filter is clean.

Anyone have any insight. My warranty is ending soon and if I need to make a big deal about this at the dealership the time is now.


Thanks,

Bradley
 

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Hi Bradley,

I know the issue quite well, my 16 ST1 did it all the time from when I bought it new, my 16 ST3 doesn't do it at all strangely. There is a TSB from Ford that are having technicians gap the plugs at 0.040. I would either try that yourself or take it to the dealership, mention the TSB if they are being difficult, get them to put in new spark plugs at 0.040 and see what happens. Please let me know the result!

Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ron,

Thanks a lot for the feedback. My car is also a 2016, and an ST3. Was your car completely stock? I'm currently running a custom tune and was told to gap the plugs from 0.026 - 0.028 to prevent detonation and keep negative ignition corrections to a minimum. I'm not 100% about gaping plugs all the way out to 0.040. I will definitely take a look at any TSB that may be related. I'm also surprised that more people don't seem to have the same issue.

Thanks!
 

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Ron,

Thanks a lot for the feedback. My car is also a 2016, and an ST3. Was your car completely stock? I'm currently running a custom tune and was told to gap the plugs from 0.026 - 0.028 to prevent detonation and keep negative ignition corrections to a minimum. I'm not 100% about gaping plugs all the way out to 0.040. I will definitely take a look at any TSB that may be related. I'm also surprised that more people don't seem to have the same issue.

Thanks!
No problem! My ST1 was never tuned but it did have a exhaust and air filter. It had the issue when it was completely stock too. I was surprised on how wide they're gaping them as well, but apparently it's working according to the Ford service tech I got the TSB from.
 

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Ron,

Thanks a lot for the feedback. My car is also a 2016, and an ST3. Was your car completely stock? I'm currently running a custom tune and was told to gap the plugs from 0.026 - 0.028 to prevent detonation and keep negative ignition corrections to a minimum. I'm not 100% about gaping plugs all the way out to 0.040. I will definitely take a look at any TSB that may be related. I'm also surprised that more people don't seem to have the same issue.

Thanks!
No problem! My ST1 was never tuned but it did have a exhaust and air filter. It had the issue when it was completely stock too. I was surprised on how wide they're gaping them as well, but apparently it's working according to the Ford service tech I got the TSB from.
I guess it makes sense, larger Gap should increase size is the spark/fire, I believe will make engine run richer as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I ended up changing out the spark plugs today to see if it makes a difference. I won't know until tomorrow morning. I went with the NGK 6510s which is a highly recommended "1 step colder" plug considering i'm tuned, have an intercooler, and live in Phoenix. Summer temps are brutal out here. I gaped them to 0.026 and took the car out for a test drive. Ran really good... felt smoother somehow. I'll report back tomorrow after the big test.
 

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xTheMan42 said:
I guess it makes sense, larger Gap should increase size is the spark/fire, I believe will make engine run richer as well.
Think the opposite.. that would promote a fuller burn of the fuel mixture which would promote running leaner. In the instance you have incomplete ignition and you have any unspent fuel, that would be rich.

The problem with gapping plugs too wide with forced induction is the spark "blowing out" under boost with too large of a gap. .040 seems too wide.
 

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xTheMan42 said:
I guess it makes sense, larger Gap should increase size is the spark/fire, I believe will make engine run richer as well.
Think the opposite.. that would promote a fuller burn of the fuel mixture which would promote running leaner. In the instance you have incomplete ignition and you have any unspent fuel, that would be rich.

The problem with gapping plugs too wide with forced induction is the spark "blowing out" under boost with too large of a gap. .040 seems too wide.
Ah gotcha, I had it reversed in my mind. Why would Ford recommend gapping that far then? Are they just guessing?
 

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Ah gotcha, I had it reversed in my mind. Why would Ford recommend gapping that far then? Are they just guessing?
Yes basically they are trying to correct misfires at idle, I ran over gapped plugs for about a day when I found the Special Service Message on it. With a tune my car would be fine at idle/ low boost, but if you get to a moderate amount, anything over about 14psi it would misfire about 21-23 times a second. I'm stage 3 now, with a new tune and colder NGK plugs gapped to .026" and it still sometimes misfires on cold start around 8-10 times but at this time there is no real fix from Ford or anyone. I would not worry too much on it, these misfires can happen while cold or after warming up a bit but they should all be only happening at idle. Any misfires under any load are abnormal and should be worrisome. With direct injection everyone is having trouble fixing this problem, a cause can be that the mixing of fuel and air is obviously more difficult if you are shooting fuel directly into the cylinder and letting air try to catch up and mix before spark happens. When cold you run rather rich so that's why they over gap for a "hotter" spark to try and burn all the fuel.
 

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DO NOT GAP TO .040 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you don't care about your car then go for it. And if you are tuned just say good bye to your engine before you shut the hood ;)


I run mine at .026. I run step cool NGK and when it is really cold out I have misfires... it is "normal" for these cars.

if you don't know what you are doing I HIGHLY suggest doing more research before popping the hood. or just stay stock and take your car to the dealer for its work ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Yes basically they are trying to correct misfires at idle, I ran over gapped plugs for about a day when I found the Special Service Message on it. With a tune my car would be fine at idle/ low boost, but if you get to a moderate amount, anything over about 14psi it would misfire about 21-23 times a second. I'm stage 3 now, with a new tune and colder NGK plugs gapped to .026" and it still sometimes misfires on cold start around 8-10 times but at this time there is no real fix from Ford or anyone. I would not worry too much on it, these misfires can happen while cold or after warming up a bit but they should all be only happening at idle. Any misfires under any load are abnormal and should be worrisome. With direct injection everyone is having trouble fixing this problem, a cause can be that the mixing of fuel and air is obviously more difficult if you are shooting fuel directly into the cylinder and letting air try to catch up and mix before spark happens. When cold you run rather rich so that's why they over gap for a "hotter" spark to try and burn all the fuel.

Hello guys. This morning I started my car from a dead cold start (had been sitting for at least 16 hrs) and even with the new plugs i'm experiencing the exact same thing. Below I have included a picture of my AP during warm up. I let the car idle until 130* and saw a total misfire count of 24 before finally driving the car. Once I starting driving it, I didn't see any other misfires.

Fordtech402 - I read an article from Stratified Tuning this morning which explained exactly what you are talking about. My question is, how many misfires are acceptable? I've seen some other threads where people are seeing 5-8 misfires... but 20+? I don't have a CEL or any codes, and the AP won't tell me which cylinder is missing without codes. At this point should I try replacing my coils? Or is 24 an acceptable number of misfires for a warm-up cycle?

Stratified states don't sorry about it until you see a CEL - Blog : Misfires and the Ecoboost, when should you worry? : Stratified Automotive Controls

AP Misfires.jpg
 

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Hello guys. This morning I started my car from a dead cold start (had been sitting for at least 16 hrs) and even with the new plugs i'm experiencing the exact same thing. Below I have included a picture of my AP during warm up. I let the car idle until 130* and saw a total misfire count of 24 before finally driving the car. Once I starting driving it, I didn't see any other misfires.

Fordtech402 - I read an article from Stratified Tuning this morning which explained exactly what you are talking about. My question is, how many misfires are acceptable? I've seen some other threads where people are seeing 5-8 misfires... but 20+? I don't have a CEL or any codes, and the AP won't tell me which cylinder is missing without codes. At this point should I try replacing my coils? Or is 24 an acceptable number of misfires for a warm-up cycle?

Stratified states don't sorry about it until you see a CEL - Blog : Misfires and the Ecoboost, when should you worry? : Stratified Automotive Controls

View attachment 304930
who is tuning your car? Send them data logs?

How cold is it outside?

I have seen 12 (it was 24F out that morning) but 20+ seems like a lot
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
DO NOT GAP TO .040 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you don't care about your car then go for it. And if you are tuned just say good bye to your engine before you shut the hood ;)


I run mine at .026. I run step cool NGK and when it is really cold out I have misfires... it is "normal" for these cars.

if you don't know what you are doing I HIGHLY suggest doing more research before popping the hood. or just stay stock and take your car to the dealer for its work ;)

I'm not sure who you are referring to? Earlier in the thread I stated that I replaced the plugs with NGK 6510s gaped to 0.026 exactly. I also stated that I didn't think gaping to 0.040 was safe. Please see above as well. Just before you posted, I also posted my findings from this morning during a cold start with brand new plugs and included a pic of my AP. The new plugs are gaped properly and torqued to 10 lb/ft.

Thanks
 

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I'm not sure who you are referring to? Earlier in the thread I stated that I replaced the plugs with NGK 6510s gaped to 0.026 exactly. I also stated that I didn't think gaping to 0.040 was safe. Please see above as well. Just before you posted, I also posted my findings from this morning during a cold start with brand new plugs and included a pic of my AP. The new plugs are gaped properly and torqued to 10 lb/ft.
Thanks
I was referring to the post by the user that claimed .040 was a ok gap to run, NOT OK!

I am following along and have read each post ;) sorry if it wasn't clear who I was yelling at for typing very bad information.

It happens both with & w/o the tune installed. It was about 68* in my garage when I started my car this morning.
if you have a tuner, I would send them datalogs and have them see if they see any issues.

68*F! you shouldn't see a single misfire... ok maybe 1 but NOT 24... something is wrong! take it to stock and take it to the dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I was referring to the post by the user that claimed .040 was a ok gap to run, NOT OK!

I am following along and have read each post ;) sorry if it wasn't clear who I was yelling at for typing very bad information.



if you have a tuner, I would send them datalogs and have them see if they see any issues.

68*F! you shouldn't see a single misfire... ok maybe 1 but NOT 24... something is wrong! take it to stock and take it to the dealer.

Yeah, I thought it was a little high too. I just talked to my tuner and he's telling me it's normal and I shouldn't worry. Also said I should clean my valves. I looked at an article on cleaning them and it's pretty easy... just might have to give it a shot.

You really should read Stratified's article on misfires in general. It's very good and very informative. Basically unless you're getting a CEL with misfire codes, it's completely normal. I'm just discovering this stuff as this thread develops. I bought my car with 5k miles and it came with a CPO warranty. Powertrain is good till 100k... thank the guy upstairs.
 

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Yeah, I thought it was a little high too. I just talked to my tuner and he's telling me it's normal and I shouldn't worry. Also said I should clean my valves. I looked at an article on cleaning them and it's pretty easy... just might have to give it a shot.

You really should read Stratified's article on misfires in general. It's very good and very informative. Basically unless you're getting a CEL with misfire codes, it's completely normal. I'm just discovering this stuff as this thread develops. I bought my car with 5k miles and it came with a CPO warranty. Powertrain is good till 100k... thank the guy upstairs.
I have read just about every word on Stratified's website. that is why I got so annoyed by the post about the large gapped plugs, because it is someone just posting to post? and has no real knowledge on the platform.

What article are you reading for cleaning valves? wondering because there are many and most of them are really good. I will likely do mine this summer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I have read just about every word on Stratified's website. that is why I got so annoyed by the post about the large gapped plugs, because it is someone just posting to post? and has no real knowledge on the platform.

What article are you reading for cleaning valves? wondering because there are many and most of them are really good. I will likely do mine this summer.


I found a link to this on focusfanatics.com. It's a very good DIY on how to remove the intake manifold. Once that's out of the way you can just hand crank the engine to lift the valves up & use your choice of cleaner to soak the valves. Once they soak for long enough you can then use a decent shop vac and just vacuum out the gunk. I'm more than likely just going to use rubbing alcohol on the valves themselves. Might use gasoline to clean the intake manifold. Not sure about that yet. I've always ran top tier premium fuel, so I can't imagine the system would be that dirty.

http://capitalstclub.org/?p=476
 

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I have a 13 ST and mine has looked like that (misfires on cold start) since the beginning. It's part and parcel of DI engines. I have mine gapped at 0.026 btw. I tried wider gap and it lessened it but then you risk detonation at higher RPM once tunes so I will live with my cold start misfires.
 

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I have read just about every word on Stratified's website. that is why I got so annoyed by the post about the large gapped plugs, because it is someone just posting to post? and has no real knowledge on the platform.
I don't meant to speak for him, but I believe he works for Ford and Fords current plan of action if you bring in a car for cold start misfires is to swap plugs and gap them at .04

Here: http://www.focusst.org/forum/focus-...an-t-get-service-post2196258.html#post2196258
 
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