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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys. So I think I have gone as long as I can with the ST1 sound system. I have already swapped all the speakers out for new ones, but there is just such a lack of power and no bass. I need help on a few things.

I currently have a 500 watt RMS Alpine mono block amp and two 10 inch audiobahn subs that I can put in. I am concerned the subs will a. take up too much trunk space and b. over power everything in such a small car. I could get this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007AQ2W6W/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I18HFZPU43BE6I&colid=2WEB9CABSP6Y which has an amp built in or

this which I could use the amp I have https://www.amazon.com/KICKER-10TC1...rd_wg=O8y49&psc=1&refRID=HVV8F7S704QHB98HRFAE

My other thought is to just get a new 5 channel amp and install that

Now lastly. I have not done an install like this in years. I am not familiar with the LC2i/LC6i and I am considering taking it to a shop to get the work done. I would bring all of my own products (wiring kit, amp, sub, LC6i, etc.) and would have the installer do the work. I know I will probably be paying about $200 for the install or so, but I wanted to see what you guys think as far as the level of difficulty on this.

TL;DR one amp or two amps (I own a mono block right now)? Install myself or have a shop do it?
 

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From a standpoint of real estate, you cannot deny that a 5ch amp or greater single chassis is an advantage over multiple amps. Less wiring to deal with, no distribution blocks, less weight, less work needed to make mounting boards for the amps, cable management etc.

However dedicated amps can provide more power. But realistically, you wont hear the difference. 2X the power is only 3db more volume. It takes 10X the power to perceive "double the volume," which is around 9db's more. This is not a winning argument IMO.

So yeah a a 5ch is better IMO.

As for the install, it's all on you to decide if your capable or have the time, or if it's worth your time. It's not terribly difficult IMO. But not everyone's skills or time is worth it, and it's better to pay someone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
From a standpoint of real estate, you cannot deny that a 5ch amp or greater single chassis is an advantage over multiple amps. Less wiring to deal with, no distribution blocks, less weight, less work needed to make mounting boards for the amps, cable management etc.

However dedicated amps can provide more power. But realistically, you wont hear the difference. 2X the power is only 3db more volume. It takes 10X the power to perceive "double the volume," which is around 9db's more. This is not a winning argument IMO.

So yeah a a 5ch is better IMO.

As for the install, it's all on you to decide if your capable or have the time, or if it's worth your time. It's not terribly difficult IMO. But not everyone's skills or time is worth it, and it's better to pay someone.
I am also looking at this from a cost standpoint. I already have one amp. A new 4-channel amp is less than a 5 channel that can push 500 watts RMS to my subs (assuming I keep my current subs). A 5 channel amp that pushes 300 watts rms is less money, but would involve me getting a new sub.

Essentially the 5 channel and new sub would be $300. A 4 channel and keep the amp sub I have would be about $150. That is just the amp/sub combo. I know I would still need more wiring, but that doesn't offset the double cost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Also would I need an LC2i, LC6i, or just a standard LOC. I have never really understood why our cars needs the LC's when I have never used one in the past.
 

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I am also looking at this from a cost standpoint. I already have one amp. A new 4-channel amp is less than a 5 channel that can push 500 watts RMS to my subs (assuming I keep my current subs). A 5 channel amp that pushes 300 watts rms is less money, but would involve me getting a new sub.

Essentially the 5 channel and new sub would be $300. A 4 channel and keep the amp sub I have would be about $150. That is just the amp/sub combo. I know I would still need more wiring, but that doesn't offset the double cost.

There is virtually ZERO difference between 300W RMS and 500W RMS when it comes to volume. Less than 3db difference, and your ears will not percieve nor hear that. Just because a speaker says it can handle X watts RMS doesn't mean you need to feed it that. That value is there to tell you that is what the speaker can sustain reliably.

As for the AudioControl units, the 2i is a 2 channel system with a sub output. The 6i and 7i are for more input channels. They effectively sum the front and rear signals since the ST2/3 amps don't put out a full signal through all outputs. But you stated you have an ST1.. So you could get by with a LC2i and a 4ch amp, and leave the rear speakers powered by the factory headunit.

Then bridge channels 3/4 on your 4 channel amp for your sub, and channels 1/2 for your front speakers (where it matters most)
Get rid of that mono amp, sell it here or craigslist. It's not gonna do you any favors.

I just saved you hundreds of dollars. I take paypal.
 

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There is virtually ZERO difference between 300W RMS and 500W RMS when it comes to volume. Less than 3db difference, and your ears will not percieve nor hear that. Just because a speaker says it can handle X watts RMS doesn't mean you need to feed it that. That value is there to tell you that is what the speaker can sustain reliably.

As for the AudioControl units, the 2i is a 2 channel system with a sub output. The 6i and 7i are for more input channels. They effectively sum the front and rear signals since the ST2/3 amps don't put out a full signal through all outputs. But you stated you have an ST1.. So you could get by with a LC2i and a 4ch amp, and leave the rear speakers powered by the factory headunit.

Then bridge channels 3/4 on your 4 channel amp for your sub, and channels 1/2 for your front speakers (where it matters most)
Get rid of that mono amp, sell it here or craigslist. It's not gonna do you any favors.

I just saved you hundreds of dollars. I take paypal.
What's wrong with the amp integrated sub? Just curious I know nothing about car audio.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
There is virtually ZERO difference between 300W RMS and 500W RMS when it comes to volume. Less than 3db difference, and your ears will not percieve nor hear that. Just because a speaker says it can handle X watts RMS doesn't mean you need to feed it that. That value is there to tell you that is what the speaker can sustain reliably.

As for the AudioControl units, the 2i is a 2 channel system with a sub output. The 6i and 7i are for more input channels. They effectively sum the front and rear signals since the ST2/3 amps don't put out a full signal through all outputs. But you stated you have an ST1.. So you could get by with a LC2i and a 4ch amp, and leave the rear speakers powered by the factory headunit.

Then bridge channels 3/4 on your 4 channel amp for your sub, and channels 1/2 for your front speakers (where it matters most)
Get rid of that mono amp, sell it here or craigslist. It's not gonna do you any favors.

I just saved you hundreds of dollars. I take paypal.
So your vote is as follows: Get a 4 channel amp? Will they have enough power for the speakers and the sub? Could you recommend an amp if so? Why would I not get a 5 channel amp? Would the only benefit of getting the LC6i/LC7i be to power the rear speakers off the amp vs the deck? Sorry for all the questions.
 

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If you got a quality 4ch amp that could do at least 4x100W or more RMS, you would be golden. You could do 4x75W RMS and be fine too. But I like extra headroom and the price is negligible.

Some amps have a built-in LOC, and that is fine. The units from Audiocontrol actually improve on that and make things sound better or make amp turn-on smarter. But if it's worth it, is up to you.

Again, use two of 4 channels for the front speakers, bridge the other two which gives you at minimum 150W RMS with a peak of 300, and that is plenty for a small hatch such as ours. You can either use the two audiobahn subs you have (pay attention to impedence) or just go down to a single ten in a small cube or wedge enclosure to keep your trunk space.

The rear speakers don't need to be amped, unless you're 8' tall and drive from the back seat. They are rear fill, and don't need to be amped.

As to why not buy just a amped sub alone... You'd have a subwoofer that overpowers your door speakers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
If you got a quality 4ch amp that could do at least 4x100W or more RMS, you would be golden. You could do 4x75W RMS and be fine too. But I like extra headroom and the price is negligible.

Some amps have a built-in LOC, and that is fine. The units from Audiocontrol actually improve on that and make things sound better or make amp turn-on smarter. But if it's worth it, is up to you.

Again, use two of 4 channels for the front speakers, bridge the other two which gives you at minimum 150W RMS with a peak of 300, and that is plenty for a small hatch such as ours. You can either use the two audiobahn subs you have (pay attention to impedence) or just go down to a single ten in a small cube or wedge enclosure to keep your trunk space.

The rear speakers don't need to be amped, unless you're 8' tall and drive from the back seat. They are rear fill, and don't need to be amped.

As to why not buy just a amped sub alone... You'd have a subwoofer that overpowers your door speakers.
I am trying to understand why getting a 5-channel is not the better idea vs a 4?
 

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5 channels are useful if you want one amplifier to power 4 speakers and one subwoofer.

the stock sony amplifier sucks.

rockford fosgate is coming out with their DSR1 that will replace the factory amplifier and allow the audio signals to be controlled and modified with full factory integration. Rockford Fosgate® -

new cars are expensive to put audio in. you need to somehow convert the factory signal into something that an aftermarket amplifier can use. the stock EQ configuration of the sony amp is terrible and wont make even the most expensive speakers sound good without being re-eq'd by a digital sound processor.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I have an ST1 so there is no sony amp. I just feel like the 5-channel is better suited for me. It powers all 4 speakers (even though the back two are more for filler) and it powers a sub. Then I could use the LC2i for the fronts and sub or shell out more for the LC6i/LC7i.
 

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if you have an ST1 then get an aftermarket headunit and the aftermarket dash kit to fit it. check out crutchfield.com

run rca's to the rear of the car. hook up amps. done. no line output converters necessary.

ST1's are the easiest of the trims to put audio in. just like any other older car. aftermarket headunit, wiring. done lol. if you had the sony package, thats where the headache starts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
if you have an ST1 then get an aftermarket headunit and the aftermarket dash kit to fit it. check out crutchfield.com

run rca's to the rear of the car. hook up amps. done. no line output converters necessary.

ST1's are the easiest of the trims to put audio in. just like any other older car. aftermarket headunit, wiring. done lol. if you had the sony package, thats where the headache starts.
This is the first car where I don't want to put a new head unit in. Deck, dash kit, steering wheel controls all add up. I like the look of the stock unit. When keeping the stock unit I was just so used to using your every day line out converter for the subs and running speed wire for the 4 channel.
 

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If you want a 5ch amp, go for it. You'll need either a 4ch LOC like the LC6i or better though, or your chosen amp has built-in LOC.

There is no reason to have a 5ch, and a 4ch could be the absolute minimum you go with, saving you some coin. But hey if we're spending YOUR money... Yeah get a 5ch.
I'm in the camp that the rears do not need to be amplified. If you can hear the rears as much as the fronts, you've done wrong. Thus my recommendation of a 4ch. But again, it's your money, and either will work.
 

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My option would be the 5 channel as well, with an LC6i or equivalent. And, speaking from experience, one 10" sub is more than enough for this car, provided it has enough airspace to move.


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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
If you want a 5ch amp, go for it. You'll need either a 4ch LOC like the LC6i or better though, or your chosen amp has built-in LOC.

There is no reason to have a 5ch, and a 4ch could be the absolute minimum you go with, saving you some coin. But hey if we're spending YOUR money... Yeah get a 5ch.
I'm in the camp that the rears do not need to be amplified. If you can hear the rears as much as the fronts, you've done wrong. Thus my recommendation of a 4ch. But again, it's your money, and either will work.
You are right. I really need not be concerned about the rear speakers getting power. So I need a 4 channel amp that when bridged will be enough for the sub and an LC2i. Besides an amp kit what else would I need? Any recommendation on these?
https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-GM-D...93937557&sr=8-10&keywords=4+channel+amplifier
https://www.amazon.com/Soundstream-...=8-8&keywords=4+channel+amplifier+soundstream

or something else?
 

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Between just those two, the Pioneer unit. Soundstream today is not the soundstream from the 90's where they were awesome, and have since been sold, acquired, distilled, and just plain generic amps now.
 

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There is virtually ZERO difference between 300W RMS and 500W RMS when it comes to volume. Less than 3db difference, and your ears will not percieve nor hear that.
If you got a quality 4ch amp that could do at least 4x100W or more RMS, you would be golden. You could do 4x75W RMS and be fine too. But I like extra headroom and the price is negligible.
interesting that at first you say there would be zero difference with 66% power increase, but then later say that you would like the extra headroom that 33% more power gives you...


while I would agree that doubling (or near doubling in that example) the power wont give you twice the volume, +3db can definitely be noticeable. but whats even more important, that extra power (the headroom you speak of) can make all the difference in sound quality...



(all numbers from here will be RMS, dealing with max numbers is a joke at best) if you have a single sub that is rated for 500w-600w and you hook it up to a 300w amp, you will likely be pushing that amp to its (or maybe past its) limits to get it where you want it to be and it will start distorting, now double the power and you will be giving that sub all of the power it needs without maxing the amp out giving you far less distortion. and you really should try to get as close to the rated power as possible, often its far easier to blow subs/speakers by under powering them vs even over powering them (of course if you send 1000w to a 300w speaker youre likely going to fry the coil in no time) because when under powering them, people tend to push their amps into distortion because they are using heavy duty subs and a lower powered amp.


long story short, always pick you speakers/subs out first, then find the amp to match it.
 
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