I use the tq limiters in 1st and 2nd with a lot of success

The OAR timing table is under borderline> BL comps I believe

I was shocked to see that essentially the whole adjustment ability of the OAR system was basically turned off..

I changed mine to be able to play with 3* of advance or retard and made it require less knock to begin trending positive I'm hoping this will make the OAR dynamic and adjust well based on fuel quality like stock

 

I'm going to have to keep playing with the settings until I find something that doesn't spin the nuts off the damn thing. Then add a little at a time until it starts to? I guess? I dunno.

 

I think I cut down the tq limiter in 1st to like 150, and then allowed like 200 in 2nd and then third is wide open

 

So you're using the Torque limiter tables

As opposed to the WGDC multiplier by gear tables?

 

So all you did was leave WGDC by gear at 100% for everything and just cap the torque output in 1st and 2nd? Does it actually dial up less boost or is it just opening the throttle less? I'm trying to figure out how each system works.

 

I believe it's limiting boost by targeting a lower estimated tq , haven't really watched it, yeah I've never touched the boost by gear tables

It doesn't feel like the cars using the throttle to limit power, if my ap wasn't at COBB id log a launch for ya

 

I'm going to flash a file right now that has torque limiting tables turned down for 1st and 2nd. Going on a cruise with a few friends here shortly. I'll take some logs and see what happens.

 

Nice post some take offs and we can see what the ecms doing

 

Yeah I'm gonna try to see what happens here. Trying to think about what (if any) special PID's I should log. I'm thinking of course ETC Actual vs Throttle Pedal Position is important here. WGDC is a standard. I'm thinking Estimated Torque, TIP Actual Absolute, TIP Boost Error and TIP Desired Absolute should give us a good picture of if the car is trying to dial up less boost or if its just closing the throttle once it calculates that output torque has reached the limit for that particular gear.

 

Sounds like a good list!

 

Provided you have most of load control and stock wastegate stuff remaining, you should be able to just dial in a torque and it'll put that out correctly. Throttle closures will be dependent on your wastegate settings causing TIP Actual to go > TIP Desired

 

Yeah I haven't fooled with any of that stuff so it should be good.

 

So, basically, it got too cold out before I had a chance to do any meaningful logs... tire traction wasn't happening at all. I'm going to give it a crack tomorrow during the day when the temp is higher.

 

Hey @matt@pandamotorworks!!!

It's come to my attention that you've been working on a tune for a friend of mine, Kyle Mallett. He's mentioned to me that you all are working on boost by gear as well. Are you using the WGDC by gear modifier or are you using the torque ceiling?

P.S. Maybe you can cut a tune for some of his cars on Forza Horizon 2, he needs a lot of help there too... :wink:

 

I use the BBG so that it is map switchable for different situations. The torque by gear is global and some guys don't always want limits in place for big smokey burnouts.

I believe I have an XB hack. Send me you're IP address

 

Yes, the 3D timing tables in map switch are in addition to the OAR tables. Also, the MS tables override your ceiling tables, but the OAR table does not.

Edit. I haven't looked at newer versions of the Stage 0 map, however in the past even the stage 0 map did not use OAR timing above a 1.0 load.

 

I have the old Stage 0 maps and they do have OAR above 1.0 load. v200 does anyways.
That would make sense because its the stock calibration data.

The borderline OAR table is the table I'm talking about, not he switchable ones

COBB zeroes it in the upper load cells

They do this for more consistent timing results. I've mentioned it before as one of the things I don't like about the OTS maps, but it allows them consistency car to car.

@GhoST
Matt already covered this but yes, Borderline OAR and the switchable both add on. Borderline OAR goes into the pre-limit section, and can be limited, the switchable goes on post-limit, and thus can surpass the limits.

@BoostedSTIG
Torque control does work like traction control in a sense that traction control can request less torque. Not all load control requires throttle closures. In this case, by limiting the torque, all further calculation from the ECU will target for that torque. You can still have no throttle closures and use torque control.

A boost by gear method though doesn't work as well for load-based tunes like the stock strategy, as TIP desired remains high, but you're neutering wastegate performance so you'll never hit it. This causes an "Underboost" condition, which throws a code and enters limp home mode. I thus only use BBG to keep the wastegate open when accelerator position is low, which reduces exhaust back pressure and helps fuel economy while I'm driving light.

If you use the Cobb strategy which sets load high and disables the underboost tables/DTC, BBG works excellently, and is a good way to control wheelspin. Your values seem much lower than the ones I had to use though, but I could understand if your tires were worn or the pavement very cold.

The only thing really left that I could want from switchables would be a switchable torque target mechanism for my load-based tunes.
For now I just have to live with not being able to do massive burnouts

 

For those of you that are using the switchable maps for different fuels, are you just changing the fuel scalar stoich to let's say 12.95 for E30 as opposed to 14.08 for E10?

Does changing the scalar point automatically then scale your AFR targets?

 

Yes. I use lambda though, but "same thing" if you can do lambda to AFR on gasoline scale conversions in your head and vice versa.

 

Ah okay. Yeah I'm asking cause I'm thinking if I dump a couple gallons of E in the tank can I just change the scalar point as a start to the tuning process

 

Yep. I use it for the opposite. If I can't get e85, I have a slot for 93 lol.

 

Even with the scalar set for E30, shouldn't we be rich ending up the target? Most people run close to .85 lambda on E10 pump gas but doesn't the target for power change on E30? I'm not sure what the optimum power AFR is on an E30 mix. But I'm assuming it's much richer than 12.0 on a gas scaled wideband.

 

11.5 is what I shoot for on e30

 

You can adjust your target fuel on each slot.

 

Assuming you can interpolate the data from that link to figure out the max power rich for E30 -

EDIT: Doesn't look like you can.

 

Yeah I'm not gonna try to fool with it now. I'm just wondering for the future. I'll have to sit down and actually figure it out haha.

 

Don't worry about it too much. I'd keep the targets similar to how you would for 91/93 to start off.

Get the timing down for E30, and then try switching the power demand target around.

I say don't worry too much, because I didn't notice too much of a difference between E30 and 91 on this engine as far as the stereotypical rich best-torque curve. The AFR to Power curve seems to be much flatter, probably due to direct injection changing combustion properties from port injection. I believe Alex@Stratified had talked about this as well somewhere, saying he too didn't notice as much of an effect.

The main effect I've noticed on power from it is the timing differences you can get, not so much that different AFR with the same timing does much of anything.

 

Ditto, I've found next to no difference from fueling changes but timing has been where the big gains are.

 

What I need to do is actually get my ass in gear and dial in my 93 tune first. Being out of commission for 5-6 weeks with a broken foot means my ass was slacking.

 

Okay I know it's been a few months since I've updated here... But I feel its time for an update now that the weather is beginning to break!

Over the winter, I've added Stoptech slotted rotors, Hawk HPS pads and Stoptech braided lines to the car.

I've also just recently started working on the tune so far. Under advice from @Gh0st and @Bugasu, I've reverted my timing HDFX tables back to the Cobb OTS stage 3 tables and am using the 3D Timing table in the switchable maps to dial in timing.

I've got the RPM scaled from 2k-7k and load scaled from 1.0-3.0

I've done a bunch of driving, I want to focus on the midrange and mid-load range first. I'm REALLY surprised how much timing can be added over the base tables. I'm pretty sure I'll get to MBT in a lot of these areas and honestly I can't figure out why it wouldn't be programmed to run MBT in all these areas to begin with because under light boost there there's barely any knock. I'm expecting, once its dialed in, for fuel mileage to increase a bit. Any time you can make more power, you probably need less revs and less airflow and fuel to do it. So we'll see what happens with that. It will probably be marginal.

I'm also thinking that once temps go up and the summer blend fuel comes out that I might find even more timing in that range? Not sure. I haven't been doing any WOT spark tuning yet though over the COBB OTS Stage 3 tables, mostly because the summer fuel isn't out yet anyway.

 

PROGRESS IS FINALLY BEING MADE!!!!

Okay so the summer fuel is out here as of June 1 but we had some really steady days of rain and whatnot but I finally got a change do to some tweaking to my toonz. LOL

Here's where I was at with my 93 octane Shell V-Power Tune. I felt pretty happy with it.
datazap.me | BoostedStig | WOT 6-22-15

Now, as of today, I used that timing as a base to start my E30 tune. I basically just copy/pasted the 3D timing table from my switchable map slot for 93 into a new map slot for E30, added 3 degrees to everything in that table, and then just adjusted scalar stoich to reflect E30.

Did a pull. 3rd gear.
datazap.me | BoostedStig | WOT 6-22-15 E30

This is where I'm at right now. Not bad for both days being in the low-mid 80's with considerably high humidity. (Welcome to Chicago summer) I've added a bit more timing and will run it again tomorrow.

Let me know what you all think.

 

Does anyone know if the Fuel Level Input % monitor is accurate on the AP? Accurate as far as figuring how many gallons of space you have when calculating for an e blend fill up?

@Gh0st
@Bugasu@Stratified

 

Its a direct reading from the sensor used for the gauge in the cluster, so its the most accurate thing you got So if you're on level ground, I think it'll be sufficient enough to get a good consistent blend.

 

I have to admit I've never looked at it. I just use the wildly inaccurate gauge and then get pissed off.

 

I'm just making a post here as a time stamp reminder of when my sanity left me.

.... Turbo swap, coming soon to a BoostedStig near you.