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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all this is a question that has been burning in the back of my mind for some time now.

As I inch forward in my build it’s time to upgrade my turbo. The BNR turbo is a major contender as it checks all the boxes while being affordable.

The only thing I’m hesitant about is the fact that it’s so cheap. I know very little about turbos and how they are made, but the fact that a major manufacturer like Garrett wants almost $1000 more than BNR doesn’t sit well with me.

Is BNR a no-name turbo? Is there any real advantage to buying from a big name supplier like Borg Warner or Garrett?


Im concerned that it won’t be as well made as a brand name offering me that I run the risk of it blowing and taking my motor with it. If this was a weekend car or a 2nd car I wouldn’t care too much, but since it’s my only vehicle I want to use good quality parts that will last.

Anyone have any opinions on this?

Thanks!


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Hi all this is a question that has been burning in the back of my mind for some time now.

As I inch forward in my build it’s time to upgrade my turbo. The BNR turbo is a major contender as it checks all the boxes while being affordable.

The only thing I’m hesitant about is the fact that it’s so cheap. I know very little about turbos and how they are made, but the fact that a major manufacturer like Garrett wants almost $1000 more than BNR doesn’t sit well with me.

Is BNR a no-name turbo? Is there any real advantage to buying from a big name supplier like Borg Warner or Garrett?


Im concerned that it won’t be as well made as a brand name offering me that I run the risk of it blowing and taking my motor with it. If this was a weekend car or a 2nd car I wouldn’t care too much, but since it’s my only vehicle I want to use good quality parts that will last.

Anyone have any opinions on this?

Thanks!


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Oh idk. I just throw money at the best parts I can get.

Not just the turbo, but keep in mind the variances in the kit. The lines, gaskets, is it OEM hookups, do you need to fux with an oil restrictor? Is it some weird oil drain?

You could always ask your tuner as well. They deal with all sorts, and can give you feedback on setups.
 

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The last i heard was from Monster, saying the first batch had fitment issues.

BNR appears to be made in-house in the states, and they've been around for a while for other platforms.

There's One or two guys on YouTube that have videos of them installed. What I'd do in this situation is start chatting with the guys on YouTube about it, and keep tabs with them over time to see how the product is holding up.

 

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First batch had fitment issues and Bryan put in the time to correct it on kits moving forward and will be re released soon.

On our mapping we have these spooling close to stock. Keeping the turbo in the stock power band 3300-6000 is good to maximize the stock fuel system capabilities as the injection window is limited past 6,000 rpm due to the pistons coming up faster there is less time to spray fuel. In addition the cam profile on these engines is optimized for peak power at 5500 RPM so keeping the power curve close to stock works best.

See image of boost curve with our stock fuel bnr 2867 mapping on 93 gas. (3rd gear) expect better spool in 4th gear when the car is under more load.

Spools 200-300 rpm slower than stock, but you can take it to 6000 vs. 5700.

383962
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Oh idk. I just throw money at the best parts I can get.

Not just the turbo, but keep in mind the variances in the kit. The lines, gaskets, is it OEM hookups, do you need to fux with an oil restrictor? Is it some weird oil drain?

You could always ask your tuner as well. They deal with all sorts, and can give you feedback on setups.
That’s the thing that’s getting me right now, I shouldn’t use cheap pets to save money alone, it’s not worth the hassle.

The last i heard was from Monster, saying the first batch had fitment issues.

BNR appears to be made in-house in the states, and they've been around for a while for other platforms.

There's One or two guys on YouTube that have videos of them installed. What I'd do in this situation is start chatting with the guys on YouTube about it, and keep tabs with them over time to see how the product is holding up.

Not a bad idea with the videos, maybe I can get in touch with them and see how it going for them. My local tuner just tuned one as well, so I know they’re getting around to people. It could be best to just wait until more have had them for longer at this point.

First batch had fitment issues and Bryan put in the time to correct it on kits moving forward and will be re released soon.

On our mapping we have these spooling close to stock. Keeping the turbo in the stock power band 3300-6000 is good to maximize the stock fuel system capabilities as the injection window is limited past 6,000 rpm due to the pistons coming up faster there is less time to spray fuel. In addition the cam profile on these engines is optimized for peak power at 5500 RPM so keeping the power curve close to stock works best.

See image of boost curve with our stock fuel bnr 2867 mapping on 93 gas. (3rd gear) expect better spool in 4th gear when the car is under more load.

Spools 200-300 rpm slower than stock, but you can take it to 6000 vs. 5700.

View attachment 383962
I run your stock turbo tune and I really like it, which is one of the driving factors as to why I’m considering the BNR turbo. Lol


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I thought I read these don’t use ball bearings on the shaft but rather journal bearing. That alone would break the deal for me. I guess it would be a sleeve bushing of a suitable material. Hopefully it would be replaceable and not integral like a old valve guide.
 

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couple of things here...

1) the markup from Garrett is INSANE. if I remember right wholesale is around 50%...that just tells me Monster isn’t gouging everyone like Garrett.

2) i think guys put too much emphasis on things that don’t really matter in the long run. Ball bearings are NICE, yes. But we run these tiny stock turbos HARD day in and day out...and they ain’t got no ball bearings 😉

I get it, you pay good money you want good chit...but I wouldn't let that stop me cold.

I am also running Monster X tune, and like it enough to patiently wait for his 2867s to come back, then I will more than likely go with his whole setup; 2867, hpfp and injectors...that setup just screams my name 😬
 

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I thought I read these don’t use ball bearings on the shaft but rather journal bearing. That alone would break the deal for me. I guess it would be a sleeve bushing of a suitable material. Hopefully it would be replaceable and not integral like a old valve guide.
BNR turbos have been around since 2001 and it's the go to turbo for the Speed 3 and Garett filed for bankruptcy.
 

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^^^ like

except (in fairness) the Garrett bankruptcy won’t affect their turbos, they got douchebagged by Honeywell and it’s gonna be years for that to work it’s way thru the courts.
 

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^^^ like

except (in fairness) the Garrett bankruptcy won’t affect their turbos, they got douchebagged by Honeywell and it’s gonna be years for that to work it’s way thru the courts.

Agreed. Their bankruptcy is corporate restructuring and is on par for a corporation of that size.

As for the longevity of the of BNR I could care less about ball bearing vs journal. I need to see technical data and Maps for these turbochargers. Without the proper tuning an turbocharger becomes an expensive hair dryer regardless it's mechanical format.

J
 
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Like other said I agree bankruptcy will not affect Garrett but for possible product shortages.
I can’t say how long ball bearing vs journal for service life stack up. My line of though was rebuilding aspects. Would the journal housing need to be machined to accept a bushing to return to as new performance or is it a sleeve to start and just replaced?
 
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Like other said I agree bankruptcy will not affect Garrett but for possible product shortages.
I can’t say how long ball bearing vs journal for service life stack up. My line of though was rebuilding aspects. Would the journal housing need to be machined to accept a bushing to return to as new performance or is it a sleeve to start and just replaced?
I've rebuilt a couple journal bearing turbos, and the pieces just fall together, no special tools other than an inch-lb torque wrench to tighten the compressor wheel.

There's A reason OE manufacturers used journal bearing over ball bearing. Longevity.
 
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Like other said I agree bankruptcy will not affect Garrett but for possible product shortages.
I can’t say how long ball bearing vs journal for service life stack up. My line of though was rebuilding aspects. Would the journal housing need to be machined to accept a bushing to return to as new performance or is it a sleeve to start and just replaced?
Last Journal turbo I rebuilt was a 14b from a 1g DSM. It was journal, just a bronze sleeve that circlipped into place iirc. So easily replaced.

Ball bearing turbos spool faster than journal bearing turbos, that was the main reason behind it iirc.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Honestly it it’s probably worth a try, it’s so much less expensive than the Garrett/Borg Warner offerings.

Stock location, all stock lines and fittings, stock DP location stock intake location. And really good performance.

It really does come down to do I want to buy from a low production boutique turbo mfg or do I want to buy from a company that makes turbos for thousands of cars across the globe.

That’s my major hiccup.

Sure our stock turbos are journal bearing, and that’s good that they are able to make them work so well, but is the amount of engineering in one of those the same as what is in a BNR? Am I going to have to rebuild a BNR turbo in 40k miles?

That’s what I don’t know, I know they are very popular among the Mazda guys, but even then I’m unsure.


$1600 vs $2500 is a large difference though.
 

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You can get a Garrett 2867 GEN II kit for 2,000 or even less. I am running one and love how it was plug and play. No guesswork piecing together a kit and for 2,200 it comes with the needed tune!
 
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In reality a journal bearing turbo will spin almost just as freely as a ball bearing once you get some oil around the bearings :)
Plus I’ll save $1000 for 200rpm spool difference. There’s not that many benifts to ball bearing except response time and recovery between shifts. I run a journal bearing off brand 3576 and see pretty decent spool times. In reality it’s all about your preference. Only simplicity I like about journal bearings is they are less problematic and won’t poop out the bearings into my oil pan threw my drain tube if they go bad.
Plus Holset turbos have been around for years they are all journal bearings. And they’re even used in formula 1 racing. I’ve only had to rebuild one journal bearing turbo ever and it wasn’t even because shaft play issues. I just wanted to make sure it had fresh bearings in it before i beat the **** out of it like it owes me lunch money.
Please forgive my poor grammar. But As much as I should educate my self to spell I feel like the majority of the public should educate their self on pros and cons of journal bearing turbos before shooting down the quality of one company. This is something I’m very passionate about and know a ton about. https://www.prosystemsturbo.com/pros-and-cons-of-ball-bearing-turbochargers/
 

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Sorry had to edit my post. I made a mistake I have journal bearing not ball. Don’t mind me just a little retarded.
 

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Ok i dont know about fitment issues on the focus, to be honest i didnt know the bnr had released anytning for the ST yet. But i come from and own a speed6. And the BNRs are huge in that world, just food for thought, corksport makes some nice turbos that mount to a t25 flange that are similar in size to bnr and similar in price, but personally i think our nicer, i have the corksport cst4 on my speed6. As for reliability, the BNRs have been quite reliable from performance stand point, as far as how they mount up and installation issues that i cant comment on, at least there were never any really on the mazdas but they made them specifically for the mazdas.
 
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I was kind of surprised to see this outcome. BNR 2867 tearing up a Garrett g25-550

 
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Discussion Starter #20
I think I'm just going to go for the BNR. I think that its worth it, its also the only way to get a monster tune with a big turbo. I've had such a good experience with my stock turbo tune from them that I really want to stay with them going forward.

If the stock turbo is journal bearing then I'm not worried about staying with a journal bearing when i upgrade. If its good enough for ford to put in the motor stock then I'm ok with it.

If it craps itself then so be it.

Now we wait for them to be back in stock lol.
 
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