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Cam caps stay with the head and in their original positions or need to be line bored. I learned this lesson the hard way 15+ years ago when doing HKS cams on an old Sentra SE-R, I had a couple caps that were scored and I had the bright idea to swap them with better ones off a spare head I had. The motor bound up and would barely turn over by hand and would not run when buttoned up.

While it would be a great if it was as simple as swapping to the 2.3 cap, like the last poster stated, I personally wouldn't fire that motor up until you took more precise measurements.
 

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2013 ST2, AGP BWS turbo, long block
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Discussion Starter · #43 · (Edited)
Right. It's a tough gamble. Maybe Ford's manufacturing process is tighter and the caps are very similar between blocks. Or maybe they're off and will bind up your block like @Mirage276 's Nissan. the tolerances are too small to measure for average garage.

One way you could check would be to blue them.
Machinists use blue dye to check the fitment of injection molds and super tight tolerance pieces.
Could put some blue dye on the cap journal, let it all flash and dry, then instal it and the rest of the caps in order with proper torque, then see how much of the dye transfers to the Camshaft. You'll be able to identify high spots and low spots.

if the Blue dye test looks the same between the 2.0L and the 2.3L I'd sleep much easier.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 · (Edited)
Unfortunately, it does not have such specialized equipment. I'm not a mechanic. It's my hobby. I measured the height of the bushings that hold the exhaust shaft and they are exactly the same.
The height and diameter dimension will be the same on your caliper (resolution). They're all cut for the same camshaft diameter.

Its the center of the bore that could be different. Like Center location. And you would need some very nice tools to measure it, especially since these tolerances could be below 0.001". And since you're really measuring it with respect to the other centers.... It's tough to locate the center of one circle, let alone four.

My post right before this about the blue dye is probably your best bet.

All that said, you could take some very fine polishing paste / honing paste and take a tenth of a thou off of the cam cap journal.. Could help account for these hair splitting discrepancies. If you oversize the Cam cap very slightly, it could buy you some dimensional slack, at the cost of maybe lowering your engine oil pressure. I would only do this if the blue test looks vastly different between the two.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Update: I'm now using RS injectors. All of the required information is on the first page of this thread:

Fuel injector info is in post #2

 

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So, those injectors parameters apply to stock ST fuel pump and RS fuel pump using the RS injectors. Because I'm heading that way but installing the injectors first and the pump later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
So, those injectors parameters apply to stock ST fuel pump and RS fuel pump using the RS injectors. Because I'm heading that way but installing the injectors first and the pump later.
confused by your wording, but those injector parameters should work for those injectors regardless of what pump is feeding them.
The RS pump will just feed them better.

I am installing them soon. I will update those tables with any fine tuning that I do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 · (Edited)
Car ran well on the jack stands with the RS injectors in. See post number 2 for what settings I ended up using. Pretty much entirely RS parameters except for one.

Had a small panic attack when car would only warm up idle then die. Found out my Throttle body wire was just a bit dirty. All good.

So far, from a brief late night driveway rev session the fueling looks healthier than before. Trims are holding tighter. One of my ST injectors had a bad O-ring. The discoloration is pretty noticable, guessing it wasn't holding high GDI fuel rail 2000 psi pressure. At 120,000 miles + Ethanol mix I just assumed it was time to replace all the injectors and sensor. One of the O rings fell off in the rail during removal... Probably not the best sign? RS looks much better.

Motor vehicle Hood Vehicle Automotive exterior Auto part
Hood Motor vehicle Automotive exterior Automotive design Auto part
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 · (Edited)
I called XDI today and they mentioned that the roller tapped will be different (which you found out). They couldn’t confirm that the spring was the same size on both pumps to seat the roller.

If they are the same size, the pumps are the identical, besides the fuel inlet connection.

if not, they said I can exchange the pump for a 10% restocking fee. They are also out of stock of the RS pumps.

Let me know if the springs are the same size on both pumps.

Also, I saw your post on an RS thread under the WTB section asking about cam caps… guess it’s just not an option.

I was however wondering if you can drill the fuel lobe housing instead of adding material to the cam cap? I’m sure that has already crossed your mind.
Give this thread a full skim. I think it'll help.

The springs are not the same size.
3 lobe gets a flat tappet with a smaller diameter spring
4 lobe gets roller tablet with larger diameter spring.

The fuel inlets are the same size. Only the Flex fuel Ti-VCT has a different sized fuel line (and electrical connector)

There is also discussion in this thread about why you can or can't buy cam caps. @Moment has recently pulled a Cam cap from a 2.3L RS. still waiting to see if it runs. The debate is on the tolerances (all cam caps are line bored to the head).

Drilling the fuel lobe housing isn't possible. you'd have to drill pretty much on top of the lobe's wall.. putting the bolt longwise through the wall. Potentially destroying the seal channel, and definitely drilling right through the re-designed oiling vein. The oil comes up from the bottom now. and travels right where the old bolt hole was.

Something that hasn't been discussed yet is boring out the ST Lobe housing. Just thought of this. And it might be possible, but the Roller tappet adds height to the HPFP stackup. You would have to bore out the lobe housing, re-cut the oil groove on the I.D., and then add a spacer on the top so that the 2.3L fuel pump has the height needed for the roller tappet. - Now this might actually be a way avoid the welding method I did. At least you can buy the lobe housing covers for both RS and ST pretty cheaply.. And drop it off at a machine shop while they do this work... Now if just someone made a spacer..
 

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to check the clearance between the cap and the cam Plastigauge can be used as a cheap and effective measuring device (its what it is made for)
first measure the stock setup at various points in the bore then swap only the cap leaving everything else the same and compare if its with in spec great! if not you need to go to a competent machine shop...
 

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Performing this swap tonight using the Ford Performance cams. Will have some more updates in the next few days of dialing it in.
 

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Car is up and running using the newer 2.0L st values despite being 2.3l. Under vacuum load the car does exceptional and is very close on fuel trims. Under boost I break up some. So I am going to start working on that. This swap seems to have smoothed out an issue I was having at low rpm with high load that I likely made worse by using 2.3l interals with the 2.0l head.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Car is up and running using the newer 2.0L st values despite being 2.3l. Under vacuum load the car does exceptional and is very close on fuel trims. Under boost I break up some. So I am going to start working on that. This swap seems to have smoothed out an issue I was having at low rpm with high load that I likely made worse by using 2.3l interals with the 2.0l head.
Yo I actually have an update for the HPFP latency tables with 2.0L ECU one sec. I'll update the main post.
Also, I can offer Camshaft settings I think work decently.
  • COBB VE base table
  • COBB VE intake cam VE correction
  • COBB VE exhaust cam VE correction
  • Optimum performance curves (I & E)
  • Some Cam index table adjustments
Are you stock turbo?
With the AGP BWS hybrid there is more low end lag. takes until about 3200 to spool. My cam adjustments help with that. My tune reduces camshaft overlap - the stock ones were pointier and the factory settings cause more overlap than intended. But with stock turbo the lag may be less noticeable. BWS has clipped turbine wheel.
 

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I am running a 2867 gen II .64 a/r. Im using the cam settings that JST dialed the cams in with initially. At idle fuel trims were spot on, at WOT ive had to change VE in the MAP vs Air Charge tables a good bit on the top end.
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
I am running a 2867 gen II .64 a/r. Im using the cam settings that JST dialed the cams in with initially. At idle fuel trims were spot on, at WOT ive had to change VE in the MAP vs Air Charge tables a good bit on the top end.
Interesting. I'd love to see the Cam settings that were obtained on the dyno. Maybe you can DM?
There is some guesswork with calibrating Camshafts on the road... That said, I am running a different turbo so who knows.

Unfortunately, During the Accesstuner V4.0.0 update, they changed the MFV pull-in current table.
If you were running the settings I showed before today, this would have been then #1 item to update. Undenounced, I've been running new settings for MFV Pull in current, latency, and latency compensation for the last few months. It was a notable improvement in HPFP response with V3.4.0. Just never got around to updating post.
But now since they use a bunch of weird settings for something called MSV, I've got some more datalogging and troubleshooting to do. I'll follow up with whatever I discover and put it on the #1 and #2 posts.

FRP cam settings and first go at MSV settings are up to date.
Please check all HPFP tables as were a few other things I improved.
 

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Working on obtaining newest cobb update that will allow me to mess with those voltages. I'm one version too old. Emailing cobb support again. I did input all of the other settings though but it looks like those voltages will be critical.
 
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Well, I had JST make a revision but now my ACT clutch isnt holding. Driveability is good but the idle is a little surging. Gonna pull my trans and check that stuff out, but I am happy i did the fuel pump and cam swap. Turbo is staying on strong as hell where I used to be lacking at like 2900-3400rpm. Low rpm high load is no problem at all now too.
 
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