1st HPDE aftermath and newbie questions
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  1. #1
    FST Senior Member okaythen's Avatar
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    1st HPDE aftermath and newbie questions

    After a 2 day track event the brake pedal was soft, most likely boiled the fluid and wanted to see if I did other damage to the brakes. So I took off the wheel and brake caliper (1st time for me) pads' shim are in pieces, just take those off and put it back on it's fine? I didn't use pad grease tho.
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    My brake pads is there still a decent life left? Wonder if I should just change to track pads now and flush brake fluid to motul 600 dot 4 at the same time or keep using those until next track event which is 4,5 months away. (Those stock pads got 17.5k miles and 2 days of track days on them)

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    The driver side's brake one of the pads was really burnt onto the caliper, I got frustrated and stopped like in the pic, should I clean it better? Or pads won't wear evenly I think? What do you guys recommend to take those burnt crap off? It's hard to get those off!!! Name:  IMG_20180525_050305.jpg
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    Didn't take pics here but the passenger side one of the pads that's not connected to the piston, is like stuck, the shim of the pad doesn't look like those in the pics and not burnt but just stuck next to the caliper, part of the shim is loose tho, I actually just put it back. Should I have clean out that pad, and clean out the stuck shim ? Wonder if during driving if it will break into smaller pieces and mess up the brakes....!

    Didn't check out rears but based on my front pads thickness and those pics, should I take a look at rear wheel's brake caliper/pad/etc? Can't really see how much pad is left on the rear, it's hard to see!

    I didn't lub the caliper pins when I put them back, didn't have lubs and the pins were pretty clean. What's the tq to tighten those pins? Just hand tight and like both hands real tight?

    After I taken the rim off, I wanted to access the caliper pins better, but the steering wheel won't turn at all, however I found out I can turn it at the wheel, so I turned the rotor to have better access to the caliper and pins, I didn't damage anything right? (coz steering wheel won't move)

    Stock pads seem to last a long time, and 63 bucks from rock auto, do any of you just use stock pads for HPDE? Or should I get something better. (Beginner in HPDE I brake light, early and long)


    what grease/lube do you guys use for pads, cliper pins. (for tracking) Prestone DOT4 is it ok for tracking? Dry boiling point 511F is that high enough. Got many unopened bottle in the garage. If so I am going to cancel amazon order of 2 RBF 600 DOT4 and just use prestone.

    Thanks guys not a mechanic and not very good working on cars lol, got a lot of newbie questions.
    Last edited by okaythen; 05-27-2018 at 02:57 PM.

  2. #2
    I spend too much of my life on FST! aaronc7's Avatar
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    I don't know off hand what starting thickness is for stock pads, but they still look OK to me. Once pad material is thinner than backing plate I'd start shopping and there are the squeal indicators as well. For track days they recommend 50%+ pad life remaining generally, but you kinda gotta gauge your skill level and typical pad wear at an event--I've went thru a basically new set of pads in a weekend. Different car, 500hp and 3000lbs, but it's still pretty tough on brakes. If you're not sure go ahead and buy some now and then you'll have them on hand when needed.

    Some disturbing info posted at the end there. Not lubing the sliding pins, unsure of torque specs. For something like brakes this is something you need to go about the right away, especially if you're tracking the car. Torque spec is 20 ft-lbs from the manual i have

    This is what you want for caliper lube: I put hardly any on the pads themselves... just a tiny super thin layer/smear on where the caliper/pistons touch the pad, and the pins themselves of course. Don't need a ton of the pins, just clean them all, and a nice thin even layer

    https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-2412...70_&dpSrc=srch

    Brake fluid, I have ran ATE type 200 on above mentioned car and had zero issues, but I also religiously bled/flushed brake fluid before events. It's a good value/performance compromise. I also recently found that JEGs started making/selling their own brake fluid and its an even better value. I bought a bunch but havent used it yet. I also like the smaller containers so I don't have to open and spoil a whole liter at once.

    https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performa...28073/10002/-1

    Another option is getting Castrol SRF, which has an incredibly high wet boiling point, so you really don't have to worry about flushing it. Maybe just a quick bleed before an event. I have seen several guys who use it on their dedicated track cars (that they drive a lot), and it was good for the whole season....probably longer, but they did an annual flush to be safe. Yes it's expensive, but depending on how many events a year you do/time you spend on flushing brakes..might be worth it.

    https://www.jegs.com/i/Allstar-Perfo...78115/10002/-1

  3. #3
    FST Senior Member okaythen's Avatar
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    Thanks for that, forgot to mention I am a beginner and just looking for budget or best bang for the buck fluid/pad/etc. But noted as the info will be helpful if I get serious into road racing!

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    FST Senior Member okaythen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronc7 View Post
    This is what you want for caliper lube: I put hardly any on the pads themselves... just a tiny super thin layer/smear on where the caliper/pistons touch the pad, and the pins themselves of course. Don't need a ton of the pins, just clean them all, and a nice thin even layer

    https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-2412...70_&dpSrc=srch

    In the review I did a search for pins, and reviews said it's not good for rubber. Maybe it's not 100% silicone?

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    FST Junkie! SiThlord's Avatar
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    I would 100% get a more track friendly set up before your next day. If you want an all around set up, that is fine BUT do not expect your brakes to be confidence inspiring as you get faster (which will happen faster than you think).

    I really look forward to track days and would hate to have them cut short due to something in my control.


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  7. #6
    FST Senior Member okaythen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiThlord View Post
    I would 100% get a more track friendly set up before your next day. If you want an all around set up, that is fine BUT do not expect your brakes to be confidence inspiring as you get faster (which will happen faster than you think).

    I really look forward to track days and would hate to have them cut short due to something in my control.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yeah getting motul 600 for next HPDE and maybe track pads too, rest is all driver, still got a lot to work on like visual scanning, smoothness, apex etc.

    I will be tracking about once every 3 months or so, what do you think about track pads for everything (DD and track days) Will it make a lot of noise or eat rotors, thinking about just entry level track pads.

    I will get faster sooner than I think? HOw is that so, there is no place to practice other than the track. Would love to get faster quick!

    Is it common for people to track their daily driven FoST, will little problems happen here and there, hate that if it happens to the car.

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    FST Junkie! SiThlord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okaythen View Post
    Yeah getting motul 600 for next HPDE and maybe track pads too, rest is all driver, still got a lot to work on like visual scanning, smoothness, apex etc.

    I will be tracking about once every 3 months or so, what do you think about track pads for everything (DD and track days) Will it make a lot of noise or eat rotors, thinking about just entry level track pads.

    I will get faster sooner than I think? HOw is that so, there is no place to practice other than the track. Would love to get faster quick!

    Is it common for people to track their daily driven FoST, will little problems happen here and there, hate that if it happens to the car.
    The learning curve like most new things- you gain a lot skill very quickly and the more finely tuned skills take a while (where the curve starts to flatten out). You are right there is no where to practice other than the track but you will become a lot faster than your first track day after 1-3 weekends. You will be braking harder, driving “harder”. So the brakes that were “okay” at your first event will most likely get demolished much faster after your 2nd or 3rd event.

    Unfortunately you can’t really have your cake and eat it too when it comes to pads and brakes with these cars (at least with oem calipers and rotors). I DD’ed dtc 60’s and it was dusty and they squealed a bit but my commute was short so I personally didn’t mind it at all! The “street/track” pads are not track worthy pads in my opinion, especially after some seat time. I would honestly spend the extra money and get a second set of pads and rotors and swap them for the track or just swap pads (just make sure to burnish them properly).

    As far as issues that come up- cooling! The track sub section has a lot on this, grab a beer and read up!!

    Message me if you need help!


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    FST Noob! patf111's Avatar
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    A few notes, true Track pads inherently are not that great on the street. They do their best work at higher temperatures, which is a challenge to reach in daily driving. I’d get a set of track pads, and as part of your prep for your day swap them out for your dd pads. Fluid - swap it out to Super ATE or the Motul, I’d flush the lines when you change it out then just a crack to bleed when you do your track day prep. Also, remember the stability control is using the brakes to keep the car from swapping ends, so it is not just you mashing the pedal down that’s using the brakes.

  10. #9
    FST Senior Member okaythen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiThlord View Post
    The learning curve like most new things- you gain a lot skill very quickly and the more finely tuned skills take a while (where the curve starts to flatten out). You are right there is no where to practice other than the track but you will become a lot faster than your first track day after 1-3 weekends. You will be braking harder, driving “harder”. So the brakes that were “okay” at your first event will most likely get demolished much faster after your 2nd or 3rd event.

    Unfortunately you can’t really have your cake and eat it too when it comes to pads and brakes with these cars (at least with oem calipers and rotors). I DD’ed dtc 60’s and it was dusty and they squealed a bit but my commute was short so I personally didn’t mind it at all! The “street/track” pads are not track worthy pads in my opinion, especially after some seat time. I would honestly spend the extra money and get a second set of pads and rotors and swap them for the track or just swap pads (just make sure to burnish them properly).

    As far as issues that come up- cooling! The track sub section has a lot on this, grab a beer and read up!!

    Message me if you need help!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yeah will be going to my 2nd track day in a few months, I am deciding between get a new pair of oem pads and see what's up at 2nd event and decide if I want to get track pads and rotors, or just get track pads and rotors now( for track only) But I still got a lot to learn driver mod wise....I learned to brake long and light and I think when I get more advanced you should brake later and harder, not sure when can I make that transition tho, maybe after couple more track days or something. (is that you just brake at the very last moment before the turn in cone, as close as you can and brake harder and as short as possible? then once you start to turn you let go the brake pedal slowly like if there is a string attached to pedal and steering wheel right)

    Really appreciate the help, will msg if I have questions.


    Quote Originally Posted by patf111 View Post
    A few notes, true Track pads inherently are not that great on the street. They do their best work at higher temperatures, which is a challenge to reach in daily driving. I’d get a set of track pads, and as part of your prep for your day swap them out for your dd pads. Fluid - swap it out to Super ATE or the Motul, I’d flush the lines when you change it out then just a crack to bleed when you do your track day prep. Also, remember the stability control is using the brakes to keep the car from swapping ends, so it is not just you mashing the pedal down that’s using the brakes.
    Yeah might do that too, just track pads for the track, but some will eat rotor when cold during DD? and some won't? Going to search around to see which one won't or maybe also get track rotors.

    OEM pads seemed to last awhile, definitely not good for track? maybe ok if I take it easy on the brake pedal the first few track days? much cheaper too 65 bucks vs hawk HPS 120.

    Yeah I got some motul RBF 600 from amazon already, I see dates on the bottle 20/7/2017, that's like almost a year old, and I will open it in a few months when track day is near. Should I return it and get fresher ones?

    Stability control does it use mostly rear brakes or all 4 depends on how you got out of control? And at track try to reach the point where just before stability kicks in right, I also left TC on.






    Just got Napa sil glyde, gonna apply it to caliper pin and back of brake pads, been getting 4 MPG less in mileage I think it's probably coz I didn't lube the caliper pin and pads. After highway driving the front rims seem pretty hot next to my leg but wasn't sure how hot it was before when I didn't touch the brakes.

  11. #10
    FST Senior Member G.Rossman's Avatar
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    What about just using a cheap street pad and then know ahead of time after the track day just swap them to another set? I know that won't give the best breaking performance but to get started with?

    I have considered doing some track with mine, just got it. Not a FWD person really but I like the car and it was not a 45k investment. What do you have to go through to get whatever license to run these events? I would really want something more of a solo event but high speed to limit my chance of getting scooped up.

 

 
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