Psilynts 2014 ST3 GTX2867 build - Page 12
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Thread: Psilynts 2014 ST3 GTX2867 build

  1. #111
    Supporting Member psilynt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmc2261 View Post
    This may be a silly question, but I dont know much about fuel systems
    What are the advantages of running methanol? More power due to a better burn?
    Also, what kinda of things do you need to change to run alternative fuels? I know for ethanol, most of the time different injectors are needed. It is the same case for methanol?
    There are a couple big benefits to running WMI
    - Methanol has a 116 octane rating so it bumps up your overall octane score so you get a big increase to knock resistance
    - Methanol burns more uniformly which will result in less knocking
    - Water absorbs a tremendous amount of heat when it vaporizes so it cools down the pistons, ring lands, etc which should help prevent premature component failure as well as aiding in knock resistance
    - Spraying/atomizing water in the charge pipe cools the charge air down further which helps prevent knocking
    - Water vaporizing also helps cool down exhaust gas temps so it should help with turbo spool
    - Spraying fuel on the valves will clean the buildup and will allow for better air flow long term
    - Spraying water on the valves and pistons when they are at operating temp essentially "steam cleans" them

    To run methanol, you need to get a methanol pump, nozzle, controller, etc and wire it up to inject somewhere after the intercooler. It's basically a self-contained fueling system with its own tank, pump, etc.

    You can run ethanol with the stock injectors and HPFP and since it has a 105 octane rating so you get a lot more knock resistance with some of that in your tank. However, the highest concentration you can run on the stock turbo is right around e30. Any more ethanol and you run the risk of going lean because the HPFP can't keep up. On a big turbo setup its around E20. You can supplement with something like the Stratified or SP63 aux fueling kits which are similar to a methanol kit in that they inject fuel into the engine either at the throttle body (Stratified) or at the intake manifold (SP63) and they will allow you to run much more ethanol rich blends like E40 and above.
    Last edited by psilynt; 04-20-2016 at 05:15 PM.
    hmc2261 and bstover17 like this.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    2014 Tuxedo Black ST3
    Stratified GTX2867R WMI build thread

    383HP/377TQ on E20
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thinking about upgrading the charge pipes on your Focus ST?
    Cold side charge pipes reviewed - JBR vs CP-E
    Hot side charge pipes reviewed - JBR vs CP-E
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

  2. #112
    FST Junkie! hmc2261's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psilynt View Post
    There are a couple big benefits to running WMI
    - Methanol has a 116 octane rating so it bumps up your overall octane score so you get a big increase to knock resistance
    - Methanol burns more uniformly which will result in less knocking
    - Water absorbs a tremendous amount of heat when it vaporizes so it cools down the pistons, ring lands, etc which should help prevent premature component failure as well as aiding in knock resistance
    - Spraying/atomizing water in the charge pipe cools the charge air down further which helps prevent knocking
    - Water vaporizing also helps cool down exhaust gas temps so it should help with turbo spool
    - Spraying fuel on the valves will clean the buildup and will allow for better air flow long term
    - Spraying water on the valves and piston when they are at operating temp essentially "steam cleans" them

    To run methanol, you need to get a methanol pump, nozzle, controller, etc and wire it up to inject somewhere after the intercooler. It's basically a self-contained fueling system with its own tank, pump, etc.

    You can run ethanol with the stock injectors and HPFP and since it has a 105 octane rating so you get a lot more knock resistance with some of that in your tank. However, the highest concentration you can run on the stock turbo is right around e30. Any more ethanol and you run the risk of going lean because the HPFP can't keep up. On a big turbo setup its around E20. You can supplement with something like the Stratified or SP63 aux fueling kits which are similar to a methanol kit in that they inject fuel into the engine either at the throttle body (Stratified) or at the intake manifold (SP63) and they will allow you to as much more ethanol rich blends like E40 and above.
    Oooooooh, that makes a lot of sense then actually
    Thanks for the great explanation!!

    Sound like its really worth it for all the added power and knock prevention
    bstover17 and psilynt like this.
    The Whip: 2015 Magnetic Metallic ST3
    Current Mods:
    Borla Touring Cat-Back Exhaust
    CP-E Stage 2 RMM
    Breedt Quickshift Arm ~ 40%, Boomba Short Throw Shifter,Boomba Shift Bushings
    Cobb Cold Air Intake
    Steeda Open Airbox
    Green Filter
    Turbosmart Dual Port BOV
    Rally Armor Mudflaps
    ~ Black and Red
    Fifteen52 Turbomacs ~ 18x9 Rally White

    Coming Soon:
    Depo Racing "BEAST" FMIC
    COBB Accessport V3 - Stratified Tune

  3. #113
    Supporting Member psilynt's Avatar
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    Had some fun over my lunch break today and captured a third gear datalog with methanol. This is with the D05 nozzle and a 60/40 water/meth mix.

    Wondering if I should be setting the start trigger lower to like something 10 psi? Its set to 12 right now and it looks like maybe it could stand to come on a smidge sooner. Still trying to understand the theory behind start and max targets and how to decide where to set them.

    datazap.me | psilynt | 2867-datalog102

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    2014 Tuxedo Black ST3
    Stratified GTX2867R WMI build thread

    383HP/377TQ on E20
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thinking about upgrading the charge pipes on your Focus ST?
    Cold side charge pipes reviewed - JBR vs CP-E
    Hot side charge pipes reviewed - JBR vs CP-E
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

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  5. #114
    Supporting Member psilynt's Avatar
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    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    2014 Tuxedo Black ST3
    Stratified GTX2867R WMI build thread

    383HP/377TQ on E20
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thinking about upgrading the charge pipes on your Focus ST?
    Cold side charge pipes reviewed - JBR vs CP-E
    Hot side charge pipes reviewed - JBR vs CP-E
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

  6. #115
    I spend too much of my life on FST! Kdub085's Avatar
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    those rims looks tough


    Sent from Tapatalk
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  7. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by psilynt View Post
    Love the build, car is looking good here as well bro! Keep the updates coming.
    psilynt likes this.
    2014 Race Red ST3

    Megan Racing EZ II Street Coilovers / Cobb Intake / Cobb RMM / Cobb AP V3 / JBR Symposer Delete / ITV22's / Stratified OTS E30 Tune / Muffler & Resonator Delete / Depo Racing Catless Downpipe / Altitude Autowerks FMIC / Shaved Grill

    Next Mods On The List

    Upper Mount & Passenger Mount / LSD / Full 3" Exhaust and Cutout

    Eventually...

    ATP GTX3076R Turbo / Aux Fueling / 425WHP Daily Goal

  8. #117
    Supporting Member psilynt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psilynt View Post
    Yeah, I have an open line of communication with them about the myriad of issues I've been having with their cold side kit. So far I am horribly disappointed with their cold side kit and wouldn't buy another one if it were the last of its kind on the market.

    - Weak BPV spring that causes a boost leak at 20 psi
    - Placement of the methanol bung is horrible, literally impossible to reach it with the pipe installed so if you want to change nozzles you have to drop the radiator support and pull the charge pipe
    - Bung plug was installed STUPID tight and stripped out
    - Now Im thinking the bung might be too deep and will need to be filed/sanded down to get the nozzle to the right depth, otherwise I might have to find a way to run one of the AquaMist extended tip nozzles or maybe even a SnowPerformance nozzle since they have more threads and might sit deeper
    Well apparently JBR doesn't want to deal with any of my issues or complaints, I sent their support an email a 7 days ago with no reply and sent another email asking for a reply 24 hours ago and no response to that either. Needless to say this will be the last JBR part that ever finds itself on any of my vehicles and I will actively be steering people away from them and their products. It's a shame, I thought when I was purchasing a JBR part I was buying a premium product, but based on this seemingly never ending stream of issues and lackluster customer service, that does not seem to be the case.

    @[email protected]

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    2014 Tuxedo Black ST3
    Stratified GTX2867R WMI build thread

    383HP/377TQ on E20
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thinking about upgrading the charge pipes on your Focus ST?
    Cold side charge pipes reviewed - JBR vs CP-E
    Hot side charge pipes reviewed - JBR vs CP-E
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

  9. #118
    FST Junkie! hmc2261's Avatar
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    Is there an advantage to having the Meth mix injected at 10 pounds of boost rather than 12? It seem like you would burn through the meth mix faster, granted you would have more low end, but is there a smoother transition of power if injected at a lower boost pressure?
    The Whip: 2015 Magnetic Metallic ST3
    Current Mods:
    Borla Touring Cat-Back Exhaust
    CP-E Stage 2 RMM
    Breedt Quickshift Arm ~ 40%, Boomba Short Throw Shifter,Boomba Shift Bushings
    Cobb Cold Air Intake
    Steeda Open Airbox
    Green Filter
    Turbosmart Dual Port BOV
    Rally Armor Mudflaps
    ~ Black and Red
    Fifteen52 Turbomacs ~ 18x9 Rally White

    Coming Soon:
    Depo Racing "BEAST" FMIC
    COBB Accessport V3 - Stratified Tune

  10. #119
    I spend too much of my life on FST! 42ryan24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmc2261 View Post
    Is there an advantage to having the Meth mix injected at 10 pounds of boost rather than 12? It seem like you would burn through the meth mix faster, granted you would have more low end, but is there a smoother transition of power if injected at a lower boost pressure?
    It really depends on your tune. In the past [email protected] had me start injecting at 14 psi, and he would tune according to that injection point. If you inject to much volume of water/meth at too low of rpm, the motor will bog down. I have experienced this, spraying at 7 psi (FULL spray, not progressive) using a 625 ml/min nozzle. You really aren't going to be making more power no matter what rpm you inject at if your not tuned for it, yes you may allow the car to add a few degrees of timing on its own but probably hardly noticeable. Right now I am injecting at 10 psi, also using a non-progressive method, but I am using an aquamist 1.2mm nozzle that only sprays 550 cc/min.

    If you are worried about how much extra meth you are consuming by injecting 2 psi earlier then I think you should get a bigger tank.

  11. #120
    ST Vendor hemiCouple@Stratified's Avatar
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    Also remember using progressive controllers that we use small turbos on this platform, I sweep through my "progressive" zone in about .8 seconds on my car. These controllers and systems we use (some exceptions) simply don't regulate well enough for it to matter THAT incredibly much.

 

 
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