Something Different....... 2013 ST CUSTOM PISTONS INCREASED RELIABILITY/DRIVEABILITY
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Thread: Something Different....... 2013 ST CUSTOM PISTONS INCREASED RELIABILITY/DRIVEABILITY

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    FST Noob! ryanolson44's Avatar
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    Something Different....... 2013 ST CUSTOM PISTONS INCREASED RELIABILITY/DRIVEABILITY

    Hello everyone on the forum. I recently purchased a low mile 2013 ST and had
    the ring lands fail. Car only has 28k original miles!!!

    As I don't like to read on these forums I'll stick to all Killer no filler.

    I want to increase the deck height on the pistons and get a better the stroke to
    rod ratio to a happy 1.8 area. Here is what i'm assuming.

    2.0 Ecoboost has a 3.272 Crank 6.136 Rod 1.291 Piston Deck
    = 10.699 Deck Height 6.136/2.272=1.875 ratio = Too Long
    2.3 Ecoboost has a 3.700 Crank 5.875 Rod 1.291 Piston Deck
    = 10.866 Deck Height 5.875/3.700=1.588 ratio = Too Short

    What I want is:

    2.0 Ecoboost Crank 3.272 with 2.3 Ecoboost Rod 5.875 with
    2.0 Ecoboost Block 10.699 = 1.552 piston deck Height.

    2.272/5.875=1.796 ratio Just Right

    Now will I unlock the holy grail of power by changing this ratio and
    magically make a godlike super motor? No

    However.... I'll be adding 1.552-1.291=0.261 Deck Height to
    my Pistons. I could conceivably have my compression ring 1/2 an inch below
    the crown of the piston if i wanted to. What I want to do is deepen spread out
    the compression and oil rings to give some extra strength to the ringlands and piston.

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    Last edited by ryanolson44; 01-25-2019 at 08:40 AM.

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    Supporting Member UnfocusedST's Avatar
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    Or you could just go forged pistons. The stock pistons are not forged.

    Sent from another garage.

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    FST Noob! ryanolson44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnfocusedST View Post
    Or you could just go forged pistons. The stock pistons are not forged.

    Sent from another garage.
    Off the shelf parts = Boring results someone else has already achieved......

    I'm not sure you read the post.... I'm talking about using aftermarket 2.3 rods which
    I didn't mention..... but why on earth would someone use stock rods? why would I settle
    for off the shelf boring everyone's already done it cookie cutter engine parts that are inherently
    flawed in their overall design? Better than stock doesn't make them best.....

    The whole idea here is to create a stronger more reliable piston with a better rod to stroke ratio.
    Last edited by ryanolson44; 01-25-2019 at 10:09 AM.

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    Super Moderator Duece McCracken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanolson44 View Post
    Off the shelf parts = Boring results someone else has already achieved......

    I'm not sure you read the post.... I'm talking about using aftermarket 2.3 rods which
    I didn't mention..... but why on earth would someone use stock rods? why would I settle
    for off the shelf boring everyone's already done it cookie cutter engine parts that are inherently
    flawed in their overall design? Better than stock doesn't make them best.....
    The flaw is the oem pistons. Nobody mentioned rods.
    Owner and lead tech of Duece's Wrenchworx. The one stop shade tree ST shop.

    Build thread - https://www.focusst.org/forum/focus-...-duecette.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duece McCracken View Post
    The flaw is the oem pistons. Nobody mentioned rods.
    Ok I was trying to avoid this but i'm going to have to give the long version.

    I mentioned Rods. I'm not only just trying to put a piston in that won't break.
    Most importantly I'm also trying to change the stoke to Rod Ratio.

    I get it if you haven't built a lot of motors or had a lot of experience with stroking
    de-stroking various motors you wouldn't think that changing this ratio would change
    much. It changes a lot of the dynamics of the motor. Here is a real old article but
    if gives you the basic idea...


    For those of you who weren't big into engines when the 383 stoker Chevy became a
    big craze a lot of the first kits used stock 400 rods and stock 350 pistons which caused
    really bad wear, and the kits which used low deck pistons and 350 rods had lots of piston
    issues with ring lands and wrist pins if they got any power put to them. Interestingly
    what you learned doing this is the mid range on the small rod motors was way better
    but if you were going to build a NA motor and rap it up to 7k or 8k RPM you wanted
    to have the long rods with the shorter piston even though it was usually less balanced
    do to the fact the piston would spend more time in the TDC and BDC with the longer rod.
    but if you built a long rod motor and went stop light to stop light with the same cam carb
    same everything as a short rod motor it ran into power sooner than the long rod motor.

    I'm want to build a motor with robust pistons 100k + miles with over 350 HP. I want to
    maintain fuel economy.

    Much farther than that it will change the cylinder pressure when the fuel is being injected
    and how much time the injector can spend injecting fuel.

    Read this article it will help you understand why I want a different ratio for the rod to stroke.

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    Super Moderator Duece McCracken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanolson44 View Post
    Ok I was trying to avoid this but i'm going to have to give the long version.

    I mentioned Rods. I'm not only just trying to put a piston in that won't break.
    Most importantly I'm also trying to change the stoke to Rod Ratio.

    I get it if you haven't built a lot of motors or had a lot of experience with stroking
    de-stroking various motors you wouldn't think that changing this ratio would change
    much. It changes a lot of the dynamics of the motor. Here is a real old article but
    if gives you the basic idea...


    For those of you who weren't big into engines when the 383 stoker Chevy became a
    big craze a lot of the first kits used stock 400 rods and stock 350 pistons which caused
    really bad wear, and the kits which used low deck pistons and 350 rods had lots of piston
    issues with ring lands and wrist pins if they got any power put to them. Interestingly
    what you learned doing this is the mid range on the small rod motors was way better
    but if you were going to build a NA motor and rap it up to 7k or 8k RPM you wanted
    to have the long rods with the shorter piston even though it was usually less balanced
    do to the fact the piston would spend more time in the TDC and BDC with the longer rod.
    but if you built a long rod motor and went stop light to stop light with the same cam carb
    same everything as a short rod motor it ran into power sooner than the long rod motor.

    I'm want to build a motor with robust pistons 100k + miles with over 350 HP. I want to
    maintain fuel economy.

    Much farther than that it will change the cylinder pressure when the fuel is being injected
    and how much time the injector can spend injecting fuel.

    Read this article it will help you understand why I want a different ratio for the rod to stroke.
    Yeah, man. Whatever you want to do. All part of the hobby, doing things different, experimenting.

    Not my cup of tea, but if you have the means and cash to do it, sounds like a interesting time.

    Our stock OEM internals are good for about 450 whp though, with the OEM level longevity, of sorts. And our block blows apart around 730 whp iirc. Most people run mid performance parts (h-beam, 4032 alloy pistons) in a 2.3 stroker to attain 500whp-ish, without the issue of running a 2618 alloy piston and the lessened mileage till rebuild. So I'm a little confused why you are going to do all this. Unless you are just in it for the thrills.

    Just seems like a cool project, not exactly some new groundbreaking method of building an ecoboost inline 4. The proof is in the pudding though, so I'm still curious to see where this goes.

    Are you doing all this machining and r&d yourself? Who's making the pistons?

    How much power are you planning on actually pushing through this motor?
    BizKhalifa and Slangwhanger like this.
    Owner and lead tech of Duece's Wrenchworx. The one stop shade tree ST shop.

    Build thread - https://www.focusst.org/forum/focus-...-duecette.html

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    FST Senior Member BizKhalifa's Avatar
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    I get it man, but nobody has (from what I've seen) played too much with the stroke/rod ratio. Part of the reason I want to stay with factory rod length but go to a 10:1 compression so it still spools the big 3076 like a stroker. The stroker kits are nice but they drop that ratio too much for my liking. That mid range torque though.... But I'm going stage 3 cams with headwork so the extra 1000rpm should help nicely.
    Kranny likes this.

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    Super Moderator Duece McCracken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BizKhalifa View Post
    I get it man, but nobody has (from what I've seen) played too much with the stroke/rod ratio. Part of the reason I want to stay with factory rod length but go to a 10:1 compression so it still spools the big 3076 like a stroker. The stroker kits are nice but they drop that ratio too much for my liking. That mid range torque though.... But I'm going stage 3 cams with headwork so the extra 1000rpm should help nicely.
    Actually, Speed Performance has played around quite a bit. They have a custom Stroker setup, and built a 2.4 stroker, and 2.5 stroker iirc. Current highest hp ST motor record holders at the block shattering 700 plus hp. They tried to get that sweet spot to keep the piston from wrecking the bore so much with long rod lengths, among other things. They have been balls deep in our motor and the dizi for mazda for a long time now.
    BizKhalifa and screzzy like this.
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    I'm just assuming that my figures are correct am I right on the stroke and rod lengths and compression height of stock pistons?

    Also I can get some 2618 Pistons from Diamond Very reasonably, taller deck in
    the piston and going with a wider ring will extend the life of those, but not as
    good as going with some 4032 Pistons of course. I'm still researching what I
    can purchase and where I can get it from.
    Last edited by ryanolson44; 01-25-2019 at 04:03 PM.

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    Super Moderator Duece McCracken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanolson44 View Post
    I'm just assuming that my figures are correct am I right on the stroke and rod lengths and compression height of stock pistons?
    I don't have that information off hand, the rod length looks good for the 2.0. I'm not much into building these motors, well outside the scope of off the shelf parts, so I never really bothered to get all that info. I do have a torn down spare block sitting in my garage though, so that day will come soon enough, lmao.

    I believe we run a mustang 2.3 crank, mustang rods, and ST pistons in our most budget stroker builds. If cross referencing those parts help with your goals.

    Hopefully someone else chimes in to confirm your other specs.
    Owner and lead tech of Duece's Wrenchworx. The one stop shade tree ST shop.

    Build thread - https://www.focusst.org/forum/focus-...-duecette.html

 

 
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