what's better for track use? BBK? or upgraded rotors/pads/fluid/cooling?
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Thread: what's better for track use? BBK? or upgraded rotors/pads/fluid/cooling?

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    FST Senior Member hachikid's Avatar
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    what's better for track use? BBK? or upgraded rotors/pads/fluid/cooling?

    So, I'm looking into making my brake system bulletproof for track days. I'm well aware of the shortcomings of the brake system of this car, and for the past few years, it's just been my DD. I won a regional autoX championship in it, and got a podium at nationals, and I'm sort of done caring about it being competitive in GS anymore. I'm looking to do some track day instructing, though, and I know most orgs generally waive entry fees for instructors. The only thing is, I'm well aware of the hideous brake fade this car has when ran at 10/10th's.

    Has anyone ran a comparison between a big brake kit, as opposed to doing the slotted rotors, Hawk DTC30's, Torque RT700, SS brake lines, and cooling vane for the brakes? I heard that a big brake kit basically completely rids the car of brake fade, but I'm not too sure. Any track guys out there have any knowledge that they can chip in? Also, do brake proportioning valves exist for this car yet in order to manually adjust the brake balance?

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    Supporting Member UnfocusedST's Avatar
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    If your talking actual road coarse track I'd look at TCE and their willwood kits. If your just an Autocrosser then the Focus RS Brembos work nicely.

    Sent from another garage.

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    FST Senior Member hachikid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnfocusedST View Post
    If your talking actual road coarse track I'd look at TCE and their willwood kits. If your just an Autocrosser then the Focus RS Brembos work nicely.

    Sent from another garage.
    Nah, actual road course. 20 minute sessions with heavy braking zones. I'm a former karter/formula car driver, so I've got enough experience to get pretty damn close to a car's actual limits. I'm just wanting to make sure I don't stuff my DD into a wall while I'm out having a bit of fun on the weekend. Would it be worth it to go BBK in order to get the dual caliper design? Or would the slotted disc/RT700/cooling vanes/high temp pads route be more than enough and save me a few bucks in the process?

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    Supporting Member UnfocusedST's Avatar
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    So add VelossaTech brake ducts if you have a 13-14. They replace the fog lamps along with the RS air guilds. The air guides attach to the a arms.

    Sent from another garage.

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    If you’re ok with treating brakes, bearings, ball joints and cv boots as consumables then stick to stock size rotors, race pads and good ducting. You dont need anything else.

    But running a track at 7/10 or higher, is hard on brakes that only a BBK really addresses. And for that you want something like the largest wilwood kit you can fit or an Essex/AP racing kit. I like the AP kit for the pad choices and how they are about 30-50% thicker than OE pad choices. The rotors are massive too and you save a ton of weight at each axle. Wilwood is wilwood, dime a dozen, replacement parts are easy to get and rebuildable, with standard pad sizes. TCE is also a great brand with good support
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    I spend too much of my life on FST! crashmw's Avatar
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    I'm an ex motocrosser and sport bike track day junky.
    My stock brakes with xp10 pads, and ATE200 fluid failed to make it through a 20 min session.
    Then went RS brembo, went to 660 fluid VTech stage 1 ducting xp10 and issue was possibly worse (lap times came down) but brakes failed quicker. Then RS brembo with 2 pc front rotors... Tried several changes... Fluids, RS rotors, then RS diverters before the Velossa ducts, etc.

    Now have BBK kit from Rotora, but not yet track tested. First outing is June... Fingers crossed.

    However, knowing what I know now, I might have done things a little differently.
    For instance, I never did rear pads (which I will run at the next event)
    I probably should have gone xp20s up front and rear race pads at some point.
    I was not very systematic about things is what I'm saying... Stupid on my part.

    I think Mitch is more knowledgeable than me. As is Danmad (who has not chimed in yet)...



    CrashMW

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    Depending on the calipers you also may need to get different rims if you have the premium wheels or use spacers with the snowflakes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashmw View Post
    I'm an ex motocrosser and sport bike track day junky.
    My stock brakes with xp10 pads, and ATE200 fluid failed to make it through a 20 min session.
    Then went RS brembo, went to 660 fluid VTech stage 1 ducting xp10 and issue was possibly worse (lap times came down) but brakes failed quicker. Then RS brembo with 2 pc front rotors... Tried several changes... Fluids, RS rotors, then RS diverters before the Velossa ducts, etc.

    Now have BBK kit from Rotora, but not yet track tested. First outing is June... Fingers crossed.

    However, knowing what I know now, I might have done things a little differently.
    For instance, I never did rear pads (which I will run at the next event)
    I probably should have gone xp20s up front and rear race pads at some point.
    I was not very systematic about things is what I'm saying... Stupid on my part.

    I think Mitch is more knowledgeable than me. As is Danmad (who has not chimed in yet)...



    CrashMW
    What was the specific issues(s) with the RS Brembos? Boiling fluid? or something with the pads/rotors/caliper?

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    Quote Originally Posted by crashmw View Post
    Now have BBK kit from Rotora, but not yet track tested. First outing is June... Fingers crossed.

    However, knowing what I know now, I might have done things a little differently.
    For instance, I never did rear pads (which I will run at the next event)
    I probably should have gone xp20s up front and rear race pads at some point.
    I was not very systematic about things is what I'm saying... Stupid on my part.

    I think Mitch is more knowledgeable than me. As is Danmad (who has not chimed in yet)...



    CrashMW
    Which setup did you go with from Rotora; which calipers, rotors, and pads? Did you also opt for their rear setup (aka lose parking/handbrake)
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    I spend too much of my life on FST! crashmw's Avatar
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    Issues were boiling fluid. Had to bleed after every session.

    The rotora BBK is the larger thicker rotors, 6 pot calipers with Ti pistons.
    I obtained 2 sets of pads as well, street and race pads.

    CrashMW

 

 
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